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Re: News and Stuff
Gunk (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 01:43
Quote:
Orocairion
With the amount of vitriol Pastor gets, you'd think he is just another Taki Inoue or Alex Yoong.

Yes, I have no idea why he is singled out for so much criticism. Petrov had just one decent race in his first year. And Sutil was a crash test dummy for almost three seasons.

 
Re: News and Stuff
mayhemfunkster (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 10:35
Yes, he didn't do too badly.

However I cannot warm to him and I think it is because of the way he was hired.

It was most upsetting to let Hulk go for him, knowing the PDVSA link, and I think he gets a lot of kicks from Williams fans (me included) for being the one that benefitted when Williams finally sold out.

Considering the car we gave him, some of his Quali performances were blinding I think.



mayhemlurker ;-)

 
Re: News and Stuff
Anderis (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 13:07
Quote:
ronald.paloschi
I wanna see Maldo shutting lots of mouths this year... let's wait and see...

No matter how good he will be, there will still be some doubters. If he does good, some people will say that our car is very good and other drivers would fight for even better places. If he trashes Senna, some people will say that everybody would trash Senna.

I remember 2009. I was highly impressed by Rosberg (apart from mistake from Singapore), but I had been reading many comments that Williams had the car which is able to fight for WDC and that were the drivers who were underperforming massively.
The same will be this year even if our drivers are good. Some people are just assuming, that Maldonado and Senna are bad, so if they do well, they will say that's due to car and other would do better.

 
Re: News and Stuff
ronald.paloschi (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 13:34
Indeed, Anderis... It is difficult to not do that kind of judgement... I did it in 2009... More because of the frustration of having a good car and not getting the results than lack of Rosberg's ability. (Altought I still think he got sleepy sometimes during the races, that year... lack of motivation, maybe...). In fact, he got no better car at Mercedes till now IMHO...

Lets hope for the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/02/2012 13:38 by ronald.paloschi.

 
Re: News and Stuff
crusty_bread (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 19:50
If Maldonado beats Senna, I'm sure it will give him a real boost, although that's hardly difficult looking at what the journo's write about him.

Senna may not be a proven bona-fide team leader, but his efforts vs Petrov, and relative to what Heidfeld managed, suggest Senna is at least moderately talented and a reasonable baseline. For Maldonado to be faster than Senna would suggest Pastor has a decent career in front of him, although for what it's worth, I think both drivers will be very up and down this year and the end result may well be inconclusive- like Buemi and Alguersuari were at Toro Rosso. If that is the case, and Willams build a decent car, I feel for Senna, because the resultant prize money may allow Williams to drop one of their pay-drivers in favour of Bottas, and with PDVSA's 3rd year escalator kicking in, only a clear victory over Maldonado would give him a decent chance of being retained.

Senna and Maldonado may both do a respectable job, but it will become very apparent when the season kicks off whether they are squandering the car's potential or not. Say for example Maldonado qualifies 7th infront of both Force India's, and Senna 15th. Then in the race Maldonado gets excited and loses his wing on the first lap, before putting in some good pace for 11th place behind both Force India's, whilst Senna blames his set up and finishes 14th.I for one would be cursing them both becasue relative to the Force India's they would have both clearly done a worse job in a better car.

The car/team/engines were the weak link in 2011, and were suitably criticised- the drivers were spared (rpralon excluded of course!). If the drivers are the weak link this year, then the same rules will apply.

I was admittedly quite harsh on Rosberg in 2009, but that was because he was being touted by some highly respected journalists as a future world champion. A lot of pressure was put on him due to Nakajima not pulling his weight, but I did not see Rosberg fully maximising his potential or that of the car in the way a world champion would. 4th and 5th places were dressed up as successes when in reality, despite showing good pace, podiums had been missed through lack of aggression or consistency. In the end, Rosberg and the FW31 were a good match because both were upper midfield contesters, but it was Rosberg who earned the plaudits and the rewards, simply because Williams had designed a better car for him and his teammate was a duffer.

 
Re: News and Stuff
joepr (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 20:54
Crusty I agree with your assessment but Bottas would have to bring a truck load of sponsors to drop Senna. You could have Nico H part 2 with Bottas. FW34 would have to be a total success to bring new sponsors and finish high to receive money from Bernie. Otherwise we could have two pay drivers in 2013.

What you do not take into account is that Hugo C is in very poor health. If he dies the PDVSA money could fade away together with Maldonado. 2012 we could have 10 strong teams which could make life difficult to Williams with the four top team taking the first 8 spots leaving the rest to fight for 9 and 10.

 
Re: News and Stuff
Anderis (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 21:17
Well, the amount of presence that Senna's sponsors have on FW34 suggests, that they all bring together less than $20 million.

According to rumours, Bottas was able to bring $2 million to race in 2011.

If the team would achieve finish somewhere 5th or 6th in WCC, I think they would be able to drop off Senna and take Bottas.
The other thing is that money from Venezuela will always be uncertain and we cannot be sure that they will support Maldonado forever. If Maldonado loses PDVSA support, he will be likely to be replaced by Bottas as well.

The worst scenario for Bottas is that both Maldonado and Senna do better than expected, Maldonado keeps his ~$50 million support from Venezuelan government and Senna increases his sponsorship after good performances in 2012, but the team is unable to finish on good position in WCC and attract new sponsors.

However, the situation for the team is good IMO. We have two drivers who bring a lot of money, but if one of them doesn't perform or loses his financial backing, we could replace him with a young, promising driver with fresh F1 car experience and a little bit financial backing too.

 
Re: News and Stuff
drunkmunky (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 22:02
the problem that i'm worried about is something like AT&T, which left the team not only because their sponsorship contract was over, but they left in part due to the fact that they did not want to be affiliated with venezuela

 
Re: News and Stuff
Orocairion (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 22:20
That's a risk you take when you deal with a company from a country hellbent on invading or imposing restrictions upon how others do business and with whom, specially as they seem to broaden their "theater of operations" to anyone who disagrees with their foreign policy.

But I digress.

 
Re: News and Stuff
crusty_bread (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 22:54
I heard Senna is bringing $10m to the team. Isn't Maldonado's PDVSA escalator increasing by more than $10m for 2013? To my mind, Senna is the one in the hot seat- which is possibly why Maldonado is gets the clear run on fridays this year. Maldonado brings far more to the team than Senna- Bruno cannot afford a tie.

As for Chavez' health, I take all reports about that with a pinch of salt. He veers from already dead, to on course for a certain recovery. Even if he were to die, what is to say a new government wouldn't take a similar line to one that has proven so successful?

I also heard that a constructors position is worth 3m, so 7th place would pay for the difference in dropping Senna, no?

 
Re: News and Stuff
Pancho Pepe (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 23:56
I hope that Maldonado will be able to prove this year that he is 100% worthy of being in F1 even without a big sponsor like PDVSA.

Chavez is going to die. Trust me on this one, folks. Only thing is that we don't know when. If it happens this year, I'm sure the new government will keep the support (the anti-Chavez politician who promised to end Maldonado's sponsorship, finished 3rd in the opposition primaries). Exposure and brand awareness has been totally amazing for PDVSA and the country.

In any case, its sad that guys like Maldonado don't get the support from the private sector in Venezuela. Fortunately, the state has intervened here, and provided that athlete with the support he needed. The same goes for our classical musicians and orchestras (Our young Maestro Gustavo Dudamel just won a Grammy), who get $80 million a year to keep music schools in slums and poor areas.

It just puzzling the lack of national identity of some private enterprises in some countries. HRT gets crumbs from Santander. Sad. At least Peter Windsor managed to get YouTube support for his USF1 project.

Though times ahead if the Euro economy keeps going down: Santander is not doing very well and I predict they will stop supporting Alonso next year, or drop McLaren.

Now, Bottas, I just don't see why he is SO highly rated. Shouldn't he do GP2 and win there first?

 
Re: News and Stuff
Anderis (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 07:50
Quote:
Pancho Pepe
Now, Bottas, I just don't see why he is SO highly rated. Shouldn't he do GP2 and win there first?
It is not necessary. Raikkonen for example came to F1 from even lower series than GP3 AFAIK and was good from the beginning. Simillar history was with Button AFAIR?

If Bottas was able to dominate some series in which he was racing before, there is absolutely no point to do a GP2 season to prove himself. It's the waste of time. If he will focus on F1 instead, he can gain more. Maybe he would perform better in his first F1 season after season in GP2, but in long term, quicker he gets into F1 car, better he will be in the future.

He isn't going to do GP2 this season, cause it would collide with driving on FP1s. He was considering WSbR, but he decided to focus on F1. Doesn't make much difference IMO if he gets plenty of driving in 2012 and racing seat in 2013.

And Maldonado. He may prove that he is good enough to be in F1 without big financial support. But it does not guarantee him a seat if he loses that support. Hulk for me proved that he is good enough and was close of being kicked out of F1. Nowadays, there are so many decent enough drivers with significant sponsorship backing, that better driver without backing will always have a problem to find a seat, as long as he isn't as proved driver as Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton etc.

 
Re: News and Stuff
Mr. Pink (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 08:14
Quote:
drunkmunky
the problem that i'm worried about is something like AT&T, which left the team not only because their sponsorship contract was over, but they left in part due to the fact that they did not want to be affiliated with venezuela

I doubt that. Have any proof of that?



http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8830/logoqz0.gif
Sir Frank: "It's what we do, we love doing it. It's like oxygen, it fixes you".

 
Re: News and Stuff
mayhemfunkster (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 09:29
Quote:
Pancho Pepe
Chavez is going to die. Trust me on this one, folks. Only thing is that we don't know when.

LOL The same can be said of us all! I know what you mean though winking smiley

I think Pastor is getting a better run due to his experience with the team, the fact it his second year and mainly as PDVSA are basically saving the team in the medium term. It depends on how the team rate Rubens' 2011. If they think Rubens did OK by Rubens standards then Pastor did very well.

As for Senna, I think there was a budget shortfall and when they analysed him the possibly realised he isn't that bad after all. And he has put in son impressive quali performances - it must be said.

The reason I rate Bottas is becuase his performance is impressive considering his inexperience. He is *VERY* inexperienced, yer handled the car in the tests he did like a pro by all accounts.

I always subscribe to the notion that top drawer F1 drivers don't need time to handle the cars and find speed: They can just do it. Think Raikkonen, Button, Vettel, Kubica of the recent generation. Regardless of experience, they got their bums in F1 machinery and just went quick. It may have taken them a bit of time to get consistency and work with ther team to optimise things but they looked like they belonged from lap 1.

Bottas did that in my opinion in the young driver tests.

P.S - 2009 - I remember seeing some footage of Rosberg's first laps in a F1 car at Barcelona in 2002/3ish. He came boiling out of the pits and into the first corner like Mansell on a qually run. At that very first moment I though "he'll be good". Just the ease with which he handled it all.

I think we now realise how good Rosberg is. I don't mean compared to Alonso or Vettel or whatever, I mean in general. If he can outqualify any iteration of Schumacher by .5sec frequently then it puts Nakajima into perspective. Naka underperformed, but Rosberg flattered the car in Qualifying, leading to depressing races. He lacked fight sometimes, and the team bungled many other opportunities that year too. But the Mercedes thing has proved to me that the FW31 was reasonable, and Rosberg was pretty good. ~In fact considering the Toyota's poor power output, the FW31 was probably pretty good.

My annoyance with Rosberg is similar today as 2009: Excellent qualifier, good starter, slips back due to poor car but doesn't reall fight it.

I've spent my life watching Mansell and Alesi. Hence everytime someone nails Rosberg i'm usually yelling "For god's sake fight for it boy!" - Even now he's at Mercedes!



mayhemlurker ;-)

 
Re: News and Stuff
SehnKhan (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 10:16
Petrov in at Caterham, Trulli gone.



http://oi61.tinypic.com/znwlmt.jpg

SehnKhan and Williams F1 Team - Together Since 1989

 
Re: News and Stuff
Vancha (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 10:18

 
Re: News and Stuff
mayhemfunkster (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 10:38
Not sure Petrov is the most deserving candidate for that seat...but he is way more so than Trulli.

thumbs down



mayhemlurker ;-)

 
Re: News and Stuff
ronald.paloschi (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 10:44
Quote:
mayhemfunkster
I've spent my life watching Mansell and Alesi. Hence everytime someone nails Rosberg i'm usually yelling "For god's sake fight for it boy!" - Even now he's at Mercedes!

hahahaha exactly what I feel... maybe 2009 caused some kind of trauma... :-)

Sorry for Trulli...

 
Re: News and Stuff
Mr. Pink (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 10:46
Quote:
"It was not an easy decision to bring Vitaly in to replace Jarno, but it was one we made to ensure that we give fresh impetus across the whole team and with a realistic eye on the global economic market," he said.

Interesting fact:
Quote:
It will be the first time since 1970 than an Italian driver is not on the grid for the start of a Formula 1 season.



http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8830/logoqz0.gif
Sir Frank: "It's what we do, we love doing it. It's like oxygen, it fixes you".

 
Re: News and Stuff
Vancha (IP Logged)
17 February, 2012 10:49
Now every F1 team has a pay driver or protege.

Ugly cars & suga daddy drivers.

wat a mess..

: /

miss u monty!

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