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Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: rmn (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 12:43

I'm also really disapointed with the single point from this weekend... I thought the car was going to be better than 10th!

I saw the comments on Planet F1 that Williams is not far off the Macca and Redbull race pace which is good but we were 1.4 seconds off the pace in Quali which last year would have put us right to the back of the grid!

We are playing catchup now - I hope Williams have the resources to try and save this season

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: gpl (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 12:47

Not yet i don,t think, if we ever will.

From the way i read it Sam is saying that they have over cooled the cosworth engine, and now they can go about making that area more compact, if this to be beleived
I am not sure what to beleive from them anymore.

Did anyone else read this, or did i dream it.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: ratiofblack (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 13:26

last year we're good at the begining because of the mclaren and ferrari like a tortoise. its just redbull and brawn fight at the front. this year we've the "big 4" who will dominate no. 1 to 8th place.
so, it realistic that we're just fight for 9th and 10th. we're in 2nd class car for 2010. we will fight for 5th place with Force India,Renault,Toro Roso and Sauber.
Bonus points if button, masa, rosberg and webber did a stupid move!

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 13:35

Quote:
gpl
From the way I read it Sam is saying that they have over cooled the Cosworth engine, and now they can go about making that area more compact, if this to be believed.
I am not sure what to believe from them anymore.

That does sound reasonable.

Defending his conservative approach, Mike Gascoyne said they designed the radiators of the Lotus with no cooling data at all.. . absolutely none.

We are forgetting for a moment that this is the first year with the new engine . . . maybe cut Williams a little slack here.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: gpl (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 13:36




Sam Michael: We're disappointed because we thought we'd been up there. But given how much work we've had in the last month with getting the engine installed and getting through all of the problems, it's not bad.

We're in the middle. We thought we could do better but given all of the new things that we've changed, but it's not too bad. There are a lot of things on the car that are far from optimised at the moment so that's encouraging.

Q. What's the development schedule - will there be a big upgrade for Barcelona?

SM: We'll bring upgrades for Melbourne, Malaysia and Shanghai – every race. We've got a reasonably strong upgrade programme. But more importantly there are three or four areas that are not optimised on the car because of the lack of time that we've had. We will make progress on that pretty quickly.

Q. Have the high temperatures shown any new problems?

SM: That's one of the things that we put a tonne of effort into to make sure that we were cooling and we were massively over-cooled. We've had to back off on the cooling because if you over-cool you lose performance.



Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: gpl (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 13:42

I and many others have given williams so much slack over these past 6 years i can hardly see them anymore.but as i say i will give Sam a 4 more races to optimise these 3 or 4 area,s he is talking about , before i call for his head.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Bond (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 13:46

Quote:
gpl
I WILL WAIT A FEW MORE RACES, IF WE ARE NOT UP THERE I WANT WILLIAMS TO REPLACE HIM BY MID SEASON, AND GET SOMBODY/ ANYBODY ELSE IN THE TEAM BUT HIM AS OUR NEW TD.BEFORE HE DRAGS THIS TEAM DOWN THE DRAIN, AND OUT OF F1 FOREVER.
IF HE TURNS IT AROUND THIS YEAR AND THAT MEANS PODIUMS THEN I WILL APOLOGIZE,IF NOT HE HAD HIS CHANCE AND CAME UP WAY SHORT, TIME TO MOVE ON COBBER

I have never felt some knumb and dissapointed watching my team this weekend,it is spoiling my favourite sport, along with these@#$%&rules, and uneven budgets.


100% in agreement.
Results are what counts.
We've been going on for 6 years now backwards with most of that time under SM's stewardship.

Can't fire the team, so you have to fire the manager if the results aren't there.

I will go on here also & eat crow too if we linearly go upwards in the standings this year. There is nothing more I want than to bleed blue & white climbing upwards @ lightspeed...much less acquiring some podiums.

But there has to be progress. & so far, there has been a bunch of stop & go & stumbling.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: PABLO 27 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 14:00

Quote:
Bond
Quote:
gpl
I WILL WAIT A FEW MORE RACES, IF WE ARE NOT UP THERE I WANT WILLIAMS TO REPLACE HIM BY MID SEASON, AND GET SOMBODY/ ANYBODY ELSE IN THE TEAM BUT HIM AS OUR NEW TD.BEFORE HE DRAGS THIS TEAM DOWN THE DRAIN, AND OUT OF F1 FOREVER.
IF HE TURNS IT AROUND THIS YEAR AND THAT MEANS PODIUMS THEN I WILL APOLOGIZE,IF NOT HE HAD HIS CHANCE AND CAME UP WAY SHORT, TIME TO MOVE ON COBBER

I have never felt some knumb and dissapointed watching my team this weekend,it is spoiling my favourite sport, along with these@#$%&rules, and uneven budgets.


100% in agreement.
Results are what counts.
We've been going on for 6 years now backwards with most of that time under SM's stewardship.

Can't fire the team, so you have to fire the manager if the results aren't there.

I will go on here also & eat crow too if we linearly go upwards in the standings this year. There is nothing more I want than to bleed blue & white climbing upwards @ lightspeed...much less acquiring some podiums.

But there has to be progress. & so far, there has been a bunch of stop & go & stumbling.

Absoluely



http://i44.tinypic.com/neuls.jpg

GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: mayhemfunkster (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 14:57

Rosberg's gritty performance doesn't help either does it! That was a suprise...and I consider myself a fan of his.

So where does Patrick come in on this. As the guy who needs to weigh-in?

Or are we at the point where we employ a Gasgoyne-type boss to do it all...and be not be answerable to Patrick?

I'm not saying Patrick is the problem, more that he needs to decide what needs to be done (if anything) and get it done. After all, we've emplyed so many talented engineers in recent years (and had contracts with old timers like Frank Dernie), and let them go too. It can't be all their fault, can it?

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 15:31

This is taken from forums.autosport.com

Quote:
like_a_rocket

I don't think it's looking hopeless, even though as Rubens says, he doesn't see himself winning races in the near future.
Quote:
Just thinking: if the Bahrein upgrade had worked and instead of losing 0.2sec (and therefore retaining status quo by running the Barcelona package) they would have gained 0.2 sec, by my calculations Rubens would have been 6th. Not a huge achievement but instead of being slightly slower than Renault and Force India, we would be slightly faster than them, IMHO. We would probably also have qualified slightly better, and finished slightly ahead of Jenson and Michael, who didn't look very comfortable in that car yet. Again, who knows for sure, but 0.2 could have really meant a lot.

Anyway, here's more quotes from Rubens. I think it's great that he speaks his mind and there's no other driver in the grid that brings us so much information about how his team is doing - if I'm wrong will someone please correct me... the quotes are from Brazilian site Tazio and the website has the audio of its interviews, lest someone thinks I make up these quotes, as has been suggested elsewhere...

"The race itself was like when you study a lot to get approved into a college, and then you find yourself in a different situation then you thought you would... at the start, I pushed every button that I could push, but there was a problem that I reported to the team: my brakes were locking a bit excessively in the back, they were warming up only in the back. So I had to be very careful at the start of the race and even lost a position to Liuzzi."

"Williams did not make a dud of a car. It wasn't a case where the car is born with problems. The car is not a bad car, but it has problems in some areas that can be addressed".

"It's no time for excuses. That's the truth. The car is not very competitive right now, the four teams [Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes] are ahead of us, we also have Force India there, and Renault there, and I need to put myself in this situation where I can try to start 7th or 8th, and score points from 5th to 10th, in this early part [of the season]".

"I think we can score points in these first 5 races, 1-5 points per race. Besides that, we will need to be a bit lucky and we will need to qualify ahead of ourselves"

Here's the meat and potatoes:

"We are extracting a midfield performance from the car, we ended 15sec from the 4th and 5th placed car, which isn't terrible, but it's far from perfect, because we lack in traction and we have an electronics problem where changing gears is a bit slow. I don't think we're extracting all the available performance from the car. I'm sure that this traction problem can be fixed. Once we get our aerodynamics improvements and we fix our eletronics issues with the gear changes, we can have a significant improvement. But I don't know if we can get to the top at this season and I'm not even asking myself if we can, though that is ultimately the goal".

"We might surprise people on some days. I had a very atypical Friday, didn't do a lot of running because we had problems, then we found more problems on Saturday morning. And at qualifying I still qualified 11th and almost made it into the 3rd qualy [despite all problems], so I still think that from time to time, Williams can surprise people".


There you have it. A very driven, very focused driver who knows what he's doing, knows what goes on with the car, knows what can be improved and who can clearly help Williams get back to the top. Count me in as a Barrica fan

Also to Cosworth, they clearly have created a very competitive engine that has power, reliability and consumption seems OK too!


Sorry if this is a duplicate post.



Williams and proud of it.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: j-s (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 15:36

I'm not going to weigh in on the SM - PH conundrum just yet. I'll wait for the European season to start and see how the team is doing then.

SM sounds optimistic over the areas of development of the FW32. I'll join him and say that the team should be nearer the front 4 by Barcelona. With a Cosworth engine and 100% new aero I don't believe that'd be too shabby.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: gpl (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 15:36

Last season and this season should of played right into the hands of a team like williams.
Last year baning all the little aero bits on top of the car, which we could never get the hang of for what ever reason.and this year we should have so much data in our archives for this kind of racing we should be right up there with ferrari, now.
But we were all over the place this weekend with no raw pace, and average race pace, yet again.
If it is down to the engine intergration, fair enough you have a few more races to prove yourselves,by concentrating on the performance of the car now , that reliability is there. but that said Brawn last year had even less time to install a differant engine package in there chassis and stil they came out way ahead of the field.
I agree with what Ruby is saying about fine tuning the cosworth will give us a few tenths, but remember they where trying new software friday on the car i assume that was for the cosworth, it did not seem to help much this weekend tho.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Bond (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 16:30

My biggest issue with all of this is that we knew that with limited & no in-season testing, improvements have to come off the desktop & wind tunnels competitive ready.

All these excuses some of us - including me - are making is just plain frustrating & repetitive.
We look for the silver lining as fans & supporters but we need some modicum of positive direction to continue our optimism.

That said, 5 races in & the euro season will bring improvements?
A top 3 finish may be fathomnable for a well heeled team.
But I fear that a #5 WCC finish is the only reasonable goal for us.
I haven't felt this hopeless in ever...Sorry.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Francesc (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 16:37

Quote:
Sam Michael
The team return from the inaugural race of the season in Bahrain with just one point following Rubens' 10th place. Sam Michael de-briefs the weekend from a technical perspective.
Q: Did the performance of the FW32 match your pre-season expectations?
SM: We had quite a few issues to sort out in the days leading up to the Grand Prix and it became apparent early on that we would have some fire-fighting to do in the build-up to the race to ensure we finished on Sunday. Because of that, we had three or four things on the FW32 in Bahrain that we couldn't change quickly. Most of those elements can be corrected over the next couple of races and that should offer a good step in performance.

Q: Rubens set the sixth fastest lap of the race. Does that give us an indication of the car’s true potential?
SM: Not really. When Rubens set that time he actually had some damage on his car. We expect to be stronger in forthcoming races.

Q: How did the tyres hold up during the race, particularly during the early stages when the car was at its heaviest?
SM: Tyres weren't a problem. The option was the strongest tyre throughout the race. The prime was good, but it offered less grip.

Q: Did the team have any reliability problems during the course of the weekend?
SM: Yes. We had some issues during practice but, through a huge amount of effort and late nights put in by the team’s mechanics, we managed to keep them contained.

Q: Were you pleased with the performance of the Cosworth engine?
SM: Yes. The engine is good and the crew in Northampton have done an exceptional job in a short space of time.

Q: How did Nico handle his race debut?
SM: Nico handled himself well. He was quick throughout practice, but then he made a small, but time costly, mistake in qualifying. He then had a bit of a messy race. Nico is a smart guy who's developing a great relationship with his engineers, Tom McCullough and Andrew Murdoch, and I know he'll deliver.



http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1460/239it.jpg

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 16:41

Come on everyone! It does seem that we are in a dark place at the moment. Let's keep faith in the FW32 programme, everyone will be working flat out back at Grove from Tuesday. This could be the making rather than the breaking of the team. There may be some light to come out of the darkness. Let's hear a bit of that fighting spirit.



Williams and proud of it.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 16:45

Sam is telling us that the FW32 was not designed around the CA2010. We effectively had one less test session than most teams.



Williams and proud of it.

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Francesc (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 16:51

Yeah, everybody calm down, it's not the best start but there's room for improvement. The car may not be a winner, but we all know that's very hard to archieve with the budget we're operating compared to others.



http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1460/239it.jpg

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Damon'sFW18 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 18:41

I think we might be able to do a Renault like they did in 2008, they had a bad start to the year, but when they got some developments underway and thanks to Alonso, they came charging back.

Except we won't be making Hulkenberg crash to benefit Rubens. tongue sticking out smiley

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 20:45

Gunk calls it well- this was the first race done with a brand new engine- and that race was conducted in a desert with a brand new track layout and in the no refuelling. Furthermore, never has preseason testing been so restricted, so basic issues with engine installation which are normally ironed out by the start of the season now are carried over to the races. All things considered, to have landed somewhere in the midfield in a place not dissimilar to last year was ok. To judge Williams' potential for the year/upcoming years on this outing is a trifle hasty. Lets not sack the TD just yet!



http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2103/williamsigbarrichello.png

Re: Bahrain Grand Prix Sunday Race Thread
Posted by: Ferreira (IP Logged)
Date: 15 March, 2010 21:01

I think 6 years is more than enough for someone to prove its value.

Williams should be a merithocratic team, where the best are rewarded and those not so good replaced or moved to a different function.

Changes in regulations are not an excuse for Sam Michael. They are the same to everyone. They happen on a year basis and we mess up every single year.

I won't call for Sam Michael to get fired in the middle of the season, but if results don't improve in the next 5/6 races, the next car should be prepared by a new Technical Director.

I would be more than happy to keep Sam with us, but either in different functions or as a Technical number 2.



http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1266/30529.png
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1101/6029sf4.png
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4946/13894vc9.jpg

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