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Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 18:02

[www.autosport.com]

I guess some form of copying of the Merc idea would be a start. I wonder which team will get there first. Macca I would guess. Would be nice to see Williams get the jump for once. I've got a cordless drill and some garden hose they can borrow.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Francesc (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 18:32

He's talking about the DRS, not the duct. I think.

3 tenths only from DRS, never thought we were losing that much there.
I think our DRS moveable flap when it's closed extents a bit over the lower fixed plane, so when it's open the gap between them is smaller than other teams have and so the top speed gain is less.

But with the current one I think we gain a bit of downforce on the corners.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: tomazy (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 18:34

I dont think that williams can copy Merc DDRS, well, not easily and cheaply, becouse of our low rear end and the way that the rear wing is conected to the gearbox, there is no place to hide the hoses.

I am expecting a new rear wing for the Mugello test, with a better DRS effect on it.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 21:54

I think most teams are going to have a Merc type solution by mid summer. It would be a shame if the core design of our car doesn't allow it.

Bit like Neweys suspension and the DDD I guess.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Lurcher (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 23:01

The ruling has opened up the possibility of passively ducting any forced air to any area of the car. You can bet Mr Newey is looking at all sorts of drag reductions. Maybe Jason will think that way too. I'm thinking along the lines of pushing air behind the front wheels which are the worst drag items.
It still concerns me that FIA have a distinction between solid components and fluid ones in the rule about movable aero parts.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: j-s (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 23:10

To me the most telling aspect is how Bruno wants long, clean races, alluding the car's good race pace.

Agree with Francesc. I don't think he's talking about the Mercedes FWFD or whatever it's called. Simply saying that the DRS could work better. Go figure, I thought that was pretty straightforward- just getting the flap to flip, so to speak.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 00:47

Yeah, but stalling the front wing is a massive benefit in quali isn't it? We can't ignore that can we? We'll be down the back of the grid, regardless of race pace.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 04:42

from a purely layman's point of view, if by actuating the DRS a passive outlet can be used for redirection of airflow why can't it be fed into the diffuser. it certainly has no relation whatsoever with exhaust gases and there could be no limit to the volume. as this is now enshrined in the FIA's decision re MB it seems as lurcher said, very much open to interpretation.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Beer_Stalker (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 06:39

Quote:
K1
from a purely layman's point of view, if by actuating the DRS a passive outlet can be used for redirection of airflow why can't it be fed into the diffuser.

Because the rules limit openings in the diffuser area. The DDD & EBD were a result the FIA poorly defining the diffuser in the rules. Those loop-holes have been closed.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 08:16

yes you are right, however if there is an area deemed to be not in the immediate vicinity of the diffuser but able to collect air being fed to the diffuser, venting air redirected from the rear wing so as to vent to atmosphere may be possible?

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: mayhemfunkster (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 09:17

Probably because the amount/velocity of air required to help the diffuser would be massive. The ducting only needs to provide enough air to upset...ie stall...the front wing. I think enough air to add further downforce is something else entirely.



mayhemlurker ;-)

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 09:21

Isn't the benefit of a blow diffuser to add downforce in the corners? If you could only blow the diffuser when the DRS was activated, you would only get this on the straights.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Lurcher (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 11:39

Correct Crusty. But, I see nothing in the ruling to prevent opening up slots to blow the diffuser when the DRS is de-activated, thus providing downforce all the time EXCEPT when on the long straights. However, its not practical to do this when a track has several straights (e.g. Spa, Monza) and only one of them is deemed a DRS zone and even then only available when close to the car in front. Blowing the drag vacuum behind the front wheels is beneficial all the time, so doesn't even need the controversial secondary use of the moveable system. Just design a big nose vent and add outlet pipes at the ideal place, so its assisting the air flow that the splitter is already doing. That still leaves the Merc system available if our people can duct it through without killing the benefit of the minimalistic back end.
You COULD blow the rear wheels but the problem there might be the unwanted 'cleaning' of the air behind the car, thus allowing a following car to get closer and get extra benefit for overtaking.
Whatever systems evolve, you can be sure the aero guys will have the CFDs close to melting point over the next few weeks.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: TerraNova19 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 13:35

CHINESE GP REVIEW PODCAST

This season has been a real humdinger, with three different winners in three races. The Chinese Grand Prix ranked as one of the best.
Listen to our podcast with Renault Sport F1 track engineers, Rémi Taffin, David Lamb and David Mart, as they discuss the season so far, the challenges of the Shanghai International Circuit and developments to come in 2012.
Plus, in an exclusive interview, Williams F1 Team Bruno Senna gives his thoughts on his first season with the team, his best-ever result in F1 in Malaysia and his race in China.


http://www.renaultsport.com/Chinese-GP-review-podcast.html?lang=fr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2012 13:36 by TerraNova19.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 15:06

Newey has said he's working on the concept.

But it is true that it doesn't have so much advantage in the race. Rosberg didn't need to overtake anyone in China. Trying to win the straightline game might be a wrong avenue for the Renault powered cars . . . these will always have a bit less top end than the Mercs and Ferraris. Maybe better to optimise the current advantages in corners and tyres?

Coughlan said about last year we possibly compromised the 33 by going down the EBD route it was never designed for.

I'm sure it's a real headscratcher for the boffins.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 20:57

Aren't blow diffusers and rear wings banned.

The blown front wing is a clever idea. But if everyone develops one it could shake things up again. Not everyone will be able to make it work well and not everyone will get it working straight away.



Williams and proud of it.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 23:10

well whatever happens those teams that suffer a major deficit in straight line speed need to develop something. to give away some 12kph to MB is a lot to compensate for.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: mayhemfunkster (IP Logged)
Date: 19 April, 2012 09:32

Indeed. While ever Tilke designs circuits with insanely long straights to combat the fast corners that lead on to them (!) then this will be an important feature to develop.

I've yet to hear any more informtion on whether the time advantage is just from increased drag reduction, or from the balance benefits and being able to use it more in the lap.



mayhemlurker ;-)

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Bond (IP Logged)
Date: 24 April, 2012 15:14

Quote:
Gunk
Newey has said he's working on the concept.
But it is true that it doesn't have so much advantage in the race. Rosberg didn't need to overtake anyone in China. Trying to win the straightline game might be a wrong avenue for the Renault powered cars . . . these will always have a bit less top end than the Mercs and Ferraris. Maybe better to optimise the current advantages in corners and tyres?

That's the logical way to think about it.
As the Lotus & Redbull Renaults looked strong this past weekend even if they don't have the FWBD like Merc (or so we think). They were highest in recored speed all weekend too,

I'd rather we get the balance right & regain that .03 gap delta vs upsetting the balance just to get straight line speed up.

 
Re: Bruno says Williams need to work on DRS
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 24 April, 2012 17:43

Red Bull were no match for Mclaren on the straights in 2011 I don't think. It's not the complete answer if you have to gove it away in the turns, especially if that means the tyres are sliding more.

It reminds me of those old touring car races with the Mustangs vs the Hillman Imps. The big yanks would blast past on the straights and the Imps would nip past again in the corners.

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