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Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
rrafekaj (IP Logged)
13 August, 2012 18:25
Name a driver who hasn't taken someone out of a race.
Championships have even been decided this way.

The problem is Pastors done it a few times in quick succession interspersed with some other 'unlucky' incidents. It's all added up to one big wave of negative. And really none of them are highspeed and dangerous.

Surely the most dangerous thing this year was koyboyashi hitting his pit crew at the British GP..?

Bit of perspective required I feel.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
13 August, 2012 19:04
I don't really think it's about the danger. It's the consitency and predictability which is starting to get to people.

Crusty compares him to Mansell and while I kind of see the point re. ego, I think Nige has much more talent and didn't make an awful lot of errors that I can recall. I don't remember him ever being called a crasher and while he was aggressive on the track, he was usually on the right side of that fine line.

Pastor needs to find the line first and work out how to keep on the right side of it. I guess we are divided on whether he can do that or not. I dount it myself. I don't think he has the mental capacity from what I have seen.

I find him arrogant which I honestly don't think Nige ever was. Yes, he's self centred and has a huge ego and you could even say a large persecution complex but he was humble when it came to his team usually. But there is a difference for me. Pastor is not a young guy any more and not a rookie. His performance this year is simply not worthy of any F1 drive. Fast or not. Senna the same for different reasons.

What I find depressing is that while they half a season to turn it all around, I think Pastor will be in the car in 2013 even if he continues to trash the car every weekend. I hope he proves me wrong.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
13 August, 2012 19:12
I hope the team proves you wrong, and brings in 2 real drivers. But unfortunately, the only thing Pastor does right is provide a means in which his nation can waste millions of euros investing in his career and Williams are currently enjoying the fruits of this... I think that money is just too sweet to let go of for the team. But that's the ONLY thing keeping him in a race seat. He's not competent. Fast, but that's his only redeeming factor in terms of on track, and speed alone is worth nothing as he has so aptly demonstrated so far this season.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
j-s (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 04:23
In an ideal world Pastor could've raced for a slower team for a couple of years and then come to Williams once he had filled his crash quota.

Then again, in an ideal world he wouldn't be as crashy today after competing for so many years in GP2.

I guess the only answer is that he has to improve. Hypotheticals are useless in the end. If he does better he'll be fine in F1. If he doesn't he'll be out once the money runs out. Simple as that.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
gpl (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 08:16
I thought his sponsors contract says that we can get rid of him after two seasons , but still get the full sponsorship money for 5 years.??????

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
crusty_bread (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 08:47
Really? I can't imagine that would be the case. Get rid of him for who?

I agree with j-s, he is a season and a half into f1 and been thrust into the limelight due to a much faster car and an invisible team mate. Grosjean has lost probably as much points as Maldonado, it's just he hasn't been upsetting others in the process, his car is more competitive and Raikkonen takes the heat off. IMO Maldonado is a great number 2 for a team rebuilding, the real disappointment has been the number 1 seat. F1 fanatic rates Williams drivers 15th and 16th mid season.

My Mansell comment came from recalling Mansell losing his 1st chance of a win in Monaco by pushing far too hard, and his insistence on winning every practice session leading to his error in Japan which ultimately cost him the championship. What did Piquet call it? A victory over stupidity or something like that. Without analysing the 1985/86/87 seasons too closely, Mansell had the pace to win the championship but he didn't get the points, hence my allusion to Pastor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/08/2012 08:51 by crusty_bread.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 10:24
I think we can get rid of Maldonado, but we have to have A venezuelan driver in the car... and tbh, compared to the others in GP2. Maldonado looks like Alonso.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
williamsf1FW34 (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 12:08
Here you can read about maldonado's contract

[www.yallaf1.com]

Williams can dumb him but then they will not receive 46million they will recieve less money

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 12:27
In 1985, Mansell had only one retirement not caused by mechanical failure. This was when he hit the wall in Detroit. In 1986, the same story, one spin in the opening GP and then 3 retirements due to car failure. In 87 he had one retirement due to a crash with Senna in Belgium. Then the Japan incident where he didn't start the race. In terms of the title he was 6th, 2nd and 2nd respectively. Hardly a disaster especially when you consider he was up against Senna, Prost and Piquet who all in the end became triple champs.

That's less retirements due to mistakes in 3 seasons than Maldo has managed in half a year.

No comparison at all in my view.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
K1 (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 13:01
why anyone would make comparisons between mansell and maldonado is beyond me. they are chalk and cheese. mansell is a true F1 legend.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 13:20
I can see Crusty's point re their personalities to be honest. Nige, for all he was my all time hero, does have some less than attractive personality traits but this is what maybe made him great. I can see that Pastor has similar traits but the problem is he has not managed to deliver on the track. I don't buy the fact that he is a rookie. He's had loads of GP2 before F1. Look at Perez, Di Resta, Hulk, Koby, Ricciardo, Vergne etc. They have all made relatively few mistakes despite lack of experience.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
gpl (IP Logged)
14 August, 2012 13:48
Quote:
K1
why anyone would make comparisons between mansell and maldonado is beyond me. they are chalk and cheese. mansell is a true F1 legend.

Agreed Red 5 is A Legend.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
crusty_bread (IP Logged)
15 August, 2012 16:40
To call for the sacking of the teams' most talented and lucrative driver is narrow minded.

This isn't a scrappy run caused by desperation after being outpaced and overshadowed by his team mate, nor the signs of a driver who hasn't the talent to keep the car on the road- there are different motives behind it. He is a hot headed newcomer jostling for position in the pecking order, and once he finds his place, he will settle down. He was set a bad example last year by another very talented driver who coincidentally, was also going through a messy patch, but he wasn;t sacked either, and guess what? He is back to being McLaren's bread winner again this year on account of being ultimately, the faster man.

Everyone has poor runs, but lets remember, Pastor beat Alonso in a straight fight at Alonso's home race, a feat very few drivers would have been capable of. Further more, he has shown bags of pace at every track we have gone too. I'm not denying Mansell was a legend, but given a full career I think Maldonado has the talent to be able to carve out his own place in the history books.

Ozzy Osbone, Retirements and Errors are two different things. The records state that Maldonado has only had 2 retirements this year. Read into that what you will.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Anderis (IP Logged)
15 August, 2012 17:15
Quote:
crusty_bread
The records state that Maldonado has only had 2 retirements this year.
And one of them due to car's failure, not due to mistake. winking smiley

It's a pity that he has hit his lowest point of performance in last few years right now. I would be surprised if things won't change in the future.



Quote:
ramy_85
I think that after the livery launch Anderis is no longer a Williams fan, not even a fake one smiling smiley

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Sumon (IP Logged)
15 August, 2012 18:36
Quote:
Anderis
Quote:
crusty_bread
The records state that Maldonado has only had 2 retirements this year.
And one of them due to car's failure, not due to mistake. winking smiley

It's a pity that he has hit his lowest point of performance in last few years right now. I would be surprised if things won't change in the future.
He retired in Bahrain and Monaco not because of the car failure.

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Anderis (IP Logged)
15 August, 2012 19:02
In Bahrain he retired due to puncture.
[www.formula1.com]



Quote:
ramy_85
I think that after the livery launch Anderis is no longer a Williams fan, not even a fake one smiling smiley

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Darron (IP Logged)
15 August, 2012 22:41
It reminds me a bit of Damon Hill in 1995, making costly errors,

lets hope Maldonado can have his Adelaide soon

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Sumon (IP Logged)
16 August, 2012 08:56
Quote:
Anderis
In Bahrain he retired due to puncture.
[www.formula1.com]
And how come this is car's failure?

If you crash into the wall and you completely destroy the car, is it car's failure too?

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Anderis (IP Logged)
16 August, 2012 09:58
If you put puncture and crash into the wall to the same category, it's not my problem.



Quote:
ramy_85
I think that after the livery launch Anderis is no longer a Williams fan, not even a fake one smiling smiley

 
Re: For Maldonado mistakes are part of learning
Sumon (IP Logged)
16 August, 2012 12:46
Quote:
Anderis
If you put puncture and crash into the wall to the same category, it's not my problem.
Punctures do not happen out of nowhere.

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