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Current Page: 16 of 17
 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
gpl (IP Logged)
10 September, 2017 15:50
I beg to differ.

I still think that it was more than added rear wing that made the difference.

We have seen before that all the wing williams could manage has had no effect in the past
there is something to discover and from that wet qualie data.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Mehryar (IP Logged)
10 September, 2017 15:59
+ suspension settings.
Ok nice, but Singapore needs a downforce level that our car doesn't produce by what we have seen in last 3 years.



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Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
gpl (IP Logged)
10 September, 2017 16:30
Lets see if they try something new if we can find out about that is.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Mr. Pink (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 14:11
Interesting thing is that Massa used a higher downforce rear wing than Stroll in Monza. So it was not up to downforce.

Source

https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/mgl/6zMdvvjY/s8/f1-italian-gp-2017-williams-fw40-rear-wing-comparison.jpg



http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8830/logoqz0.gif
Sir Frank: "It's what we do, we love doing it. It's like oxygen, it fixes you".

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
tomazy (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 16:14
That is just lazy reporting. Williams did test this ultra low downforce wing in fiday free practice, but both cars ren the same rear wing in quali and race and it was non of the two in your post.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/XPB_903104_HiRes.jpg

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/XPB_902811_HiRes.jpg

I also did not see and evidance that Williams was good in the rain becouse of more DF and diffirent set up to the others. Williams was as fast if not faster than most cars on a streight without a tow and DRS, and the tires lastest just fine in a dry race, so no wet settings there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2017 17:11 by tomazy.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Mehryar (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 16:18
Straight line speed in wet can't be the refrence point, very different corner exits, different braking points and no DRS.
What we saw in the race though, was another story.both cars spent good amount of time in the slipstream so must be high on speed trap figures...even by watching race itself, it was clear our car could not close it down to the car ahead, despite Mercedes engine, slipstream and DRS.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
tomazy (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 17:25
Our cars, when in free air in the race had 330kmh+ top speed according to the app gps data when in clean air and no DRS. The problem was not the lack of top speed for not beeing able to overtake, but the relatively small pace diffirance betwin us and the cars we were hoping to overtake. Cars with the same tire strategy and relativly equal pace are weary difficoult to overtake in Monca. Becous of the low DF of the circuit, the DRS is less effective then on other circuits. There is allso a loss of front DF throu parabolica curve where you understear and lose time to the car infront before the streight. This is why Strool should have had his pit stop 5 laps or so latter to have grip advatage, and then he could have overtaken Ocon.

And others also compromissed there setup as much as we did, look at FI rear wing tested in PF and what they raced.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/XPB_901512_HiRes.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/XPB_902807_HiRes.jpg

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Rumblestrip (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 20:40
I think what we were all seeing is that the tyres worked a lot better than previously for us and for some reason they were in the optimum window in both wet and dry.

I agree with you guys that it is tyre set up, not downforce, which suddenly came good.i

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TMT (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 03:08
The force India car looks better than the Williams, it just looks better.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TMT (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 03:08
The force India car looks better than the Williams, it just looks better.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
gpl (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 07:02
I have a feeling we might just see a more competitive FW40 this weekend after
a few setup tweaks by the team and a few new bits.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TMT (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 12:30
Quote:
gpl
I have a feeling we might just see a more competitive FW40 this weekend after
a few setup tweaks by the team and a few new bits.

Maybe...just maybe.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
tomazy (IP Logged)
14 September, 2017 16:08
Another update inSingapore for FW40.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJr3qQtV4AA-VSg.jpg

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
14 September, 2017 20:39
Nice new bargeboards but we still insist on running a lower Df front wing and rear wing as with the rest of the season. Tbh we could so with scrubbing off some of the straight line speed for some extra downforce so I really don't understand why we don't just put bigger wings on the car! It's not rocket science, it's racing 101!

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TerraNova19 (IP Logged)
14 September, 2017 21:21
Quote:
Mikef1
Nice new bargeboards but we still insist on running a lower Df front wing and rear wing as with the rest of the season. Tbh we could so with scrubbing off some of the straight line speed for some extra downforce so I really don't understand why we don't just put bigger wings on the car! It's not rocket science, it's racing 101!

I am not expert by I would make some observation of Williams FW.

They refined the FW all year. Very subtle changes.
Will be interesting to see side by side first wing at the beginning of 2017 and the latest one!

Looks like they do not like to "throw" the air over the front suspension section.
Resulting in "dirty" air and almost useless.

They prefer to send the air "under" the front suspension section. Keep it "clean".

One ideea and it is a guess: they look to send the "clean" air along the sidepods to feed the diffuser.

One more thing: the main role of the 2017 FW is not the downforce (it is plenty of that)!
It is to minimize the turbulent air produced by the front tires -->> huge amount of drag

and in some extent the turbulent air of the rear tires.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2017 06:45 by TerraNova19.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Damon96 (IP Logged)
14 September, 2017 21:25
FI going down the maximising downforce approach:

[www.autosport.com]

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TMT (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 05:09
Quote:
Damon96
FI going down the maximising downforce approach:
[www.autosport.com]

Interesting looking shark fin there on the FI, Wonder if it will make much difference to the car around the Singapore track?...Hopefully some of Williams updates will work this weekend, fingers crossed.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 06:53
Quote:
TerraNova19
Quote:
Mikef1
Nice new bargeboards but we still insist on running a lower Df front wing and rear wing as with the rest of the season. Tbh we could so with scrubbing off some of the straight line speed for some extra downforce so I really don't understand why we don't just put bigger wings on the car! It's not rocket science, it's racing 101!

I

Looks like they do not like to "throw" the air over the front suspension section.
Resulting in "dirty" air and almost useless.



One more thing: the main role of the 2017 FW is not the downforce (it is plenty of that)!
It is to minimize the turbulent air produced by the front tires -->> huge amount of drag

and in some extent the turbulent air of the rear tires.

While this is true, bigger wings are bigger downforce, And we already have one of the slippiest cars down the straights so why not add the extra. The problem as I see it is the lack of rear downforce being balanced by a lower downforce front wing. But our rear wing is nowhere near as large as we can run it either. That being said, if possible you're better off gaining downforce from other parts of the car as wings are more temperamental than say the floor.

I just can't believe they haven't tried it that's all.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TerraNova19 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 08:21
@MikeF1

In a way I think we are on the same wave!

"They prefer to send the air "under" the front suspension section. Keep it "clean".

One ideea and it is a guess: they look to send the "clean" air along the sidepods to feed the diffuser.
"

They are trying to make the floor be more aero efficient!
see the last aero updates.

 
Re: Realistic time scale for first upgrade.
TerraNova19 (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 12:19
Massa: Williams mentality change won’t improve results until 2018

Haydn Cobb
19 Sep 2017

"Many ideas I have pushed for three years and it has not changed. I think now the mentality has changed, but it’s not for the now, it’s for the future."

Felipe Massa says the mentality and development method inside Williams has changed dramatically in recent months, aided by the arrival of Paddy Lowe, but fears results won’t improve until next year.

The Brazilian driver braced for a tricky Singapore Grand Prix with Williams’s weaknesses set to be exposed at the Marina Bay Circuit and despite a number of cars failing to finish ahead of him Massa still missed out on points in 11th place – only finishing ahead of Pascal Wehrlein in the Sauber using year-old Ferrari engines.

Massa, whose future for 2018 remains uncertain, says the British squad has changed its ‘mentality of development’ which he hopes can turnaround the team’s fortunes but is concerned the impact won’t be felt until next season with focus shifting to the 2018 car.

“I don’t think it will be addressed for this season but I think we can still improve a little bit the car this season,” Massa said. “The mentality of the development needs to be different. It is different already, but maybe not for this year.

“Many mentalities, many ideas I have pushed for three years and it has not changed. I think now the mentality has changed, but it’s not for the now, it’s for the future.”

Massa believes new Williams technical chief Lowe, who joined from Mercedes at the start of 2017, has helped change things but his impact won’t be evident until next season.

“Yes, [Paddy has helped] a lot. Not only Paddy, but I think the mentality of the team,” he said. “There were so many errors it was not really correct but now it’s correct. Unfortunately, we couldn’t improve the car in the way we wanted this year, but the mentality is completely different already.

“The idea is completely different for developing a new car, which I believe Williams can have next year in terms of even the looks. But it’s impossible to say now how it will be next year. You don’t know what the others are doing.

“Everybody knows the rules, the rules are the same next year. To be honest, we know other teams are not stupid, but it’s important to change the mentality to really build things in the right way. We’ll see.”

[www.crash.net]

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