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Current Page: 54 of 55
 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
K1 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 05:39
@ Marco Cardoso......There has been no decisions published despite what certain people are positing. Given that fact then for the sake of this debate let's say that Sirotkin gets the drive, as you have indicated, then, what definitive data do you have in your possession that says the opposite to what the Williams top management have that entitles you to claim that Kubica would've been a better option? All the senior executives including the team principal would've been fully aware of what the governing criteria demand. Therefore whatever decision they take will be their best educated solution according to that criteria.

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Carinni (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 08:27
I think only money does matter, needs no debate

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
K1 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 09:07
@ Carinni...clever post that!!!!!

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
gpl (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 10:53
Williams driver choice has been questionable for a long time now.

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 12:06
@ K1 Carinni aswered the question you made me all the thiking heads at Williams want money! Not the best driver or it would have been one of the first 3 drivers in contention (Kubica, Wherlien or Kvyat) not this mediocre Sirotkin there's only the money factor for him.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
K1 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 12:33
Is that what Williams old you or are you privy to the minutes of board meetings?

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 15:43
That is simple deduction from all this mess. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Williams want's money!



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Gwanni (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 16:08
At this stage why not wherlein

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 17:10
Quote:
Gwanni
At this stage why not wherlein

He doesn't have 15M reasons for Williams to sign him.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
andy si (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 18:24
Quote:
Marco Cardoso
@ K1 Carinni aswered the question you made me all the thiking heads at Williams want money! Not the best driver or it would have been one of the first 3 drivers in contention (Kubica, Wherlien or Kvyat) not this mediocre Sirotkin there's only the money factor for him.

To be honest... the best drivers by today's standards are Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Alonso, Ricciardo...

And to have one of them interested in a Williams seat.. you need a fast racecar first and foremost! Then they'll be interested in a drive and even bigger sponsors will follow due to better press and exposure.

But for now it is what it is!
PS: I wish I could have seen how Bottas would have performed all year long in a Williams FW40. Maybe even win that Azerbaijan GP...

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Sweeper (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 19:25
Quote:
Marco Cardoso
That is simple deduction from all this mess. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know Williams want's money!

Well said. For all who want to test their deduction skills - let the logic navigate you through a simple list of statements below. Choose A or B, whichever you think is true:

1.
A. Sirotking is faster than Kubica and therefore he needs to bring twice as much in sponsorship money
B. Sirotkin is slower than Kubica and therefore he needs to compensate by bringing twice as much in sponsorship money
2.
A. Sirotkin was 1.5sec faster than Kubica after adjustment for the tyres, therefore judging by Abu Dhabi test times he leaves in the dust all but Vettel
B. Sirotkin and Kubica ran different settings and fuel so that results cannot be unambiguosly interpreted from outside and Williams have a chance to feed media with any intepretation they wish
3.
A. Sirotkin is another Hamilton, therefore Renault chose Palmer's lower performance and budget
B. Sirotkin is no rocket and brings dodgy money therefore Renault had no reason to promote him to the seat
4.
A. Williams is doing just fine budget-wise, therefore their do not accept their money to come from a dodgy source
B. Williams is in deep s*.* budget-wise, therefore they are ready to accept payment from an entity and people sanctioned on the occasion of being related to invading an independent country in Europe, lying about it, shooting down a civilian plane, and lying about it

Your logic, your choices smiling smiley

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 20:22
Well judging by Massa we will have a pretty agressive car next year and with Stroll and Sirotkin will do nothing with it.
It's obvious Williams want's money don't be naive or you would have had better options on the table then Sirotkin (Wherlein or even Kvyat) in case Kubica didn't make the cut.
A fast car in 2018 and running out of money won't attract better drivers (No money, no clown) we had a top 3 car for two season and didn't get top drivers it won't happen now!.
Another thing are the opportunities keep letting pass by, not only drivers but engine wise.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Mehryar (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 21:59
Quote:
Sweeper
1.
A. Sirotking is faster than Kubica and therefore he needs to bring twice as much in sponsorship money
B. Sirotkin is slower than Kubica and therefore he needs to compensate by bringing twice as much in sponsorship money

The fact that Kubica "needs" to bring in cash with himself to justify a seat in F1, tells he's just another pay driver now.the fact that 2 pay drivers are trying to pay more, is a reflection of their poor performance.so if one brings in twice the money, it doesn't mean he is twice worse.easy.



Quote:
Sweeper
2.
A. Sirotkin was 1.5sec faster than Kubica after adjustment for the tyres, therefore judging by Abu Dhabi test times he leaves in the dust all but Vettel
B. Sirotkin and Kubica ran different settings and fuel so that results cannot be unambiguosly interpreted from outside and Williams have a chance to feed media with any intepretation they wish

So tell us what other data you can rely on except Abu Dhabi test? whether you rely on test data, or read through safe sources or you have some inside data...btw with your option B logic, the whole testing program was a big conspiracy theory that Williams carefully made to make a show and justify their choice? Honestly, can you really even think about this scenario you're talking about?!

Quote:
Sweeper
3.
A. Sirotkin is another Hamilton, therefore Renault chose Palmer's lower performance and budget
B. Sirotkin is no rocket and brings dodgy money therefore Renault had no reason to promote him to the seat

Same can be told about Kubica.He was not wanted by Renault despite his sponsership money, not by any other team as well.Same can be told about Pascal and Kvyat too...again do you have any inside info about if any of these 3 drivers were badly wanted by a team boss but a mistake in filling the driver name paper, lead to them being left without seat?

Quote:
Sweeper
4.
A. Williams is doing just fine budget-wise, therefore their do not accept their money to come from a dodgy source
B. Williams is in deep s*.* budget-wise, therefore they are ready to accept payment from an entity and people sanctioned on the occasion of being related to invading an independent country in Europe, lying about it, shooting down a civilian plane, and lying about it

Though this one makes abit of sense from human perspective but then you wonder if we should see any American backed sponsership on the cars or why on earth the whole F1 circus ever goes to an Arab country, not to mention their long history in terrorism, dictatorship or things like that.
Get rid of half of Sponsers and 3 F1 races, then we can think about this logic too.

---------------------------

The fact is it's a mess now, our options are all @#$%&, but the logics you guys bring in, won't help as your final answer is whether Kubica, Kvyat, Pascal...all terrible drivers who are rejected by other 9 teams and need to bring in money to get a seat.

We better live with it as there won't be much of difference between them in case of performance.if there was, we had a name on paper a long time ago.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Sweeper (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 22:11
Quote:
andy si
And to have one of them interested in a Williams seat.. you need a fast racecar first and foremost!

The speed of the car at the end of the day needs to be demonstrated by the guys driving it, doesn't it? Unless the smart plan is to send a very subtle message by taking out drivers skills from the equation entirely...so that it is evident that the car is so fast that even a monkey driving it would get this eight in constructors (Sm12)

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
andy si (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 23:05
Quote:
Sweeper
Quote:
andy si
And to have one of them interested in a Williams seat.. you need a fast racecar first and foremost!

The speed of the car at the end of the day needs to be demonstrated by the guys driving it, doesn't it? Unless the smart plan is to send a very subtle message by taking out drivers skills from the equation entirely...so that it is evident that the car is so fast that even a monkey driving it would get this eight in constructors (Sm12)

You know your monkeys well!

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
K1 (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 01:03
It is possible to envisage another combination....Put a medium driver in a fast car and he becomes medium fast driver. Put a fast driver in a slow car and he then becomes a slow driver in a slow car. To demonstrate this look no further than last season. Alonso [whilst we still know is a very fast driver] he was slow driver by definition of the results.Sainz is the opposite. He is a fast driver and he was in a faster car for the end of season races.He was able to improve, relative to his TR results.As the second driver is as yet to be announced no one can really forecast what the results might be but if Sirotkin does get the nod he will be, the best choice for Williams, given the talent/sponsorship mix on offer.Williams are privy to masses of data that no one here could even imagine. Therefore they will be able to take the best on offer and the fans will just have to go with the flow.

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
gpl (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 09:45
What they forget every time is race craft it is worth millions
That is what Kubica would bring at the very least

I see these other candidates as young very litle race craft and
prone to getting into trouble especially at the starts.

Good and quite fast in testing is one thing but put them in a race and it all go,s @#$%& up
how many times have we seen that

Kubica is the man for the job give him the first 7 races and then decide.

I am sure the russian money would go for that option.

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 11:06
Sirotkin won't hold up with the big boys and Stroll we already know he doesn't.
So at the very least Williams should have gone with Wherlien.
I'm ready to a dissapointing season and clumbsy mistakes from Williams, only dreamers believe in something better then that.
Sorry for being the realistic one in here but I'm done with byuing bulls***t from the team.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
Sweeper (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 11:35
Quote:
Mehryar
The fact that Kubica "needs" to bring in cash with himself to justify a seat in F1, tells he's just another pay driver now.

Well, in my book a pay driver is someone who not only brings money, but also fails to live up to the demands of F1. Stroll, for that matter. Or Ericsson. Then you have drivers who bring money and deliver - think Alonso. You have also drivers who do not bring money, but do have a strong back-up to get into F1 and then master their skills - those who succeed (Hamilton), an those who fail (Kvyat, Wehrlein). Finally, you have drivers who get into F1 without backing AND without sponsorship money or guidance of their ex-f1-driver dads - AND deliver. Kubica is an example here, please name any other but while trying you'll realise that this category is not so populated. Now, the chap is attempting to get into F1 for the second time, facing a headwind of fears and disbelief resulting from his perceived disabilities - no wonder he needs to throw in more to get at least a chance to prove himself. Pay driver...really...

Quote:
Mehryar
Honestly, can you really even think about this scenario you're talking about?!

The funny thing is I am not alone:
[joesaward.wordpress.com].
If we assume, and this is now a reasonable assumption, that Williams is after money first of all, "using" Kubica to squeeze more money from the bigger bag is a legitimate strategy. Let's just not talk about ethics, it seems to be of a lower priority.


Quote:
Mehryar
do you have any inside info about if any of these 3 drivers were badly wanted by a team boss but a mistake in filling the driver name paper, lead to them being left without seat?

In fact, yes, sort of. I am not following the others, but for Kubica here's a good testimony on how contracting a driver can be related to the merits (google translated): [translate.google.pl]

Quote:
Mehryar
Kubica, Kvyat, Pascal...all terrible drivers who are rejected by other 9 teams and need to bring in money to get a seat.

Hamilton, Alonso, Frank Williams (yes, do the search), Rosberg, Pat Symonds and a bunch of others seem to disagree with your professional opinion. Some of them know for sure having had a chance of racing Kubica for years, so this is their view I am choosing to follow.

Quote:
gpl
What they forget every time is race craft it is worth millions
That is what Kubica would bring at the very least

I fully agree with you, gpl. Depending on Williams choice, overtaking in the same corner can look like this:,[www.youtube.com] or like this: [www.youtube.com].

 
Re: Kubica in Williams?
gpl (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 11:52
Spot on mate.

Current Page: 54 of 55

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