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Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 11:02
Lot's of threads about this topic I know but It seems the Kubica one envolves the main subject.

And by now that's just plain mean from fans and the team, Williams is now being the joke of F1 news but not because what Montoya said but the oposite.

By going Kubica's road Williams opened a Pandora box and despite all the atencion from Kubica's comeback the timming is all but wrong from Williams, first you get good media then there is only one way to go and that is down, and that's whats happening now, there's absolutly no reason to be joking around with fans and ultimatly the drivers and Williams will ultimatly end up with general dislike from the F1 fans.

What could have been a great marketing appeal went down the drain and now Williams his seen a team that plays with drivers (Kubica, Massa mainly) and their fans minds.

The joke is now on Williams probably because they went over theyr heads and are now seened as a team that didn't get there and now any shitty driver is a prospect for Williams.

Mark my words has I'ved seen this path somewhere else (Sauber).
We will end up with the worst driver line up in F1, and Williams going this way will be racing for 8th or 9th in WCC and eventualy fade away as a Merc B team or worst.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 16:08
I think I disagree.

They've given Kubica lots of time in the SIM, a private test, and more running than anyone else in the tyre tests.

So I'd say they've been pretty fair to the guy. Williams itself has not raised any expectations nor leaked any information.

If they are undecided, it's because none of the drivers has yet presented a convincing case for the seat.

The rest is just mindless media speculation.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 16:16
You are allowed to disagree Gunk it's only fair.

But for me Renault handled the matter much better then Williams.

And the're absolutely no reason for not appointing a driver by now, everyother team have their line ups made they won't take any driver from Williams and the interested drivers are looking somewhere else to for sure so you may loose some of the drivers if they sign for other seats other racing series.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 17:24
I agree with your last paragraph.

There is a post I made early in the season. After losing Bottas, and to go begging to Massa, it should have been obvious that the team did not want to be in the same position again. Yet here they are again. They knew very well that Massa was only a stop gap and probably past his sell-by date. It is all very late in the day.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Anderis (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 18:51
It's annoying how Williams have had so many uninspiring driver line-ups over the last 12 or so years.

Even more annoying that there is a very real possibility of having the weakest driver line-up next year despite being a well-established upper half of the grid team for some years now. As much as I would understand a struggle in pursuit of decent drivers after 2011, or after a sudden Bottas' departure after 2016, it looks really bad that we have been unable to come up with a decent succession plan for Massa this year.

It's funny how Massa is back in the frame according to some sources. It would be HILARIOUS if he unretired for 2nd consecutive year with Williams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2017 18:52 by Anderis.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 18:57
Well Ive been a fan of Williams since I was 14 or 15 yo but now at 37yo im starting to get really frustrated with the team.

Its mistake after mistake and the team is losing credibility year after year, 2014 was probably the exception to Williams downfall.

Average cars with average drivers and that will not go on for long.

2018 Williams ends partnership with Martini and other important sponsors and they seem to be looking for money from drivers when its suppose to be the other way around and historicaly
you will only get mediocre drivers and rookies that do 2 seasons and go searching for teams
that are actually trying to win.

Only one way from this policies and thats the bottom of the grid and has im saying either some manufacturer Junior team as Sauber or vanish completely.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
gpl (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 20:06
Build it and they will come

Let Paddy do his magic with half decent drivers now and sponsors and racers will return.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 20:42
For how many years have you been telling yourself that now gpl.

What drivers?? Build What??

Williams seems to be just to be trying to stretch their name in racing for as much as they can but since 2004 only a few glinpses of a top team.

1 win in 2012 and thats about it.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Damon96 (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 21:33
Massa dull but solid, not everyone's cup of tea but Stroll has been disappointing and Massa has to be fair, in quali at least done what he had to which was beat his teammate and he's done it comfortably. I think mid season Williams thought Kubica would be a great fit and have now realised too late he's actually not as fast as they thought and now are up sh*t creek and Massa is holding the paddle.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
gpl (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 08:27
I hear what you say.

We are heading in the right direction bringing in better people each year now
Paddy we hope and yes on paper should give us a good step forward next year also
i really hope they give Robert half the season to show them if he still has it or not.

What else do we do mate.

Claire is moving us forward a bit slower than we would like
but we are not stagnant anymore.

We wasted 5 or more years letting Spam run the team the wilderness years.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Damon96 (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 10:32
For me it's either Kvyat or wehrlein, Kvyat is probably faster on his day but mentally is shot. Wehrlein did have some good races for Sauber, they are both a risk but Kubica must be a dud, they'd have announced by now if he had his old pace.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
EagleF1 (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 12:18
Surely in terms of combination of recent experience and raw speed Wehrlein would be the best option available, Kubica would be great if the speed is still there but its looking less likely by the day.

He compared well against Ocon, has Mercedes experience and (possibly)some factory support

Seems to be the least talked about option

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Damon96 (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 12:34
Quote:
EagleF1
Surely in terms of combination of recent experience and raw speed Wehrlein would be the best option available, Kubica would be great if the speed is still there but its looking less likely by the day.
He compared well against Ocon, has Mercedes experience and (possibly)some factory support

Seems to be the least talked about option

I am surprised he hasn't had more focus on him, maybe he isn't liked in the paddock, that seemed to be the rumour when Ocon got the FI drive but he put some pretty good performances in an awful Sauber this year. Does Merc still support him? Toto hasn't mentioned him much.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Anderis (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 14:42
Wehrlein has had a bit disappointing season if you ask me. Ericsson was at disadvantage because of Sauber's car being overweight, yet there was very little between the two. If Ericsson with his car wasn't over the minimum weight, he would've quite convincing advantage over Wehrlein this year IMO.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 15:17
Good afternoon,

Quote:
gpl
What else do we do mate.

I am afraid that my answer is very pessimistic;

It doesnt really matter anymore as I truly believe that the company has now passed the point of no return.I believe that forging a partnership with Honda was its last chance, had it tried really hard and failed then maybe there would have been reason for hope, but from the outside it looks like a company that doesn't believe that it can fail.

So barring an exceptional event I believe that the most likely future is a forced sale of the company by its creditors somewhere around 2021-2023.

The main reason for this is that I am expecting that Martini and Unilever will not renew their sponsorship and in attempt to stay in existence the company will take on more and more debt. Fairly soon after making these loans creditors will come to believe that the only way to recover their funds is to force a sale.

Who they will sell to will depend upon the engine power struggle between Liberty and Mercedes, Ferrari.

If Liberty win there could easily be a queue of people looking to join F1 in a fit of enthusiasm, similar to the one that followed the cost cap announcement which gave F1 HRT, Lotus (Tony Fernandes) and Manor. This could easily include someone who can afford to take the team over a la BMW Sauber.

If Liberty lose then there will probably be no rush to enter F1 so it would likely be a sell off to a one off enthusiast such as Red Bull or the company will be sold off in bits. Parts of WAE, the buildings, maybe someone will buy part of the F1 operation as the basis of a new team.

It is always possible that there are one or two exceptional talents who have been held back and Paddy has seen this and allowed them to flourish. Yet even if these people do exist and they were discovered and freed early this year it seems likely that time will be against them.

At some point every company moves from the start-up spirit of running the company from a callbox to simply employer and employees, during this transition there is a period of good will. Williams had that between Renault and BMW as everyone could see the future, but surely that has now been exhausted.

Adrian Newey wasn't given a share holding, BMW wasn't, Tony Fernandes (Air Asia) wasn't.

Such transitions can be made but apart from Ferrari there are very few examples in F1. Ron Dennis recreated McLaren so much that it was almost his, but he sort of stepped down around the early 2000's and since then there hasn't been much success, LH excepted.

Bye

Ian



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 15:34 by IanSmithISA.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Mehryar (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 16:50
Been away for a few days and now I'm shocked how angry some guys have turned to be...clearly because of not announcing Kubica so far.

Marco, I can understand your down mood by not seeing your favorite driver getting the seat (so far) but who is calling Williams undecided line up a joke? I check the news sites and don't see such a thing anywhere.
Now let's check some facts:

1.Kubica was given more chances than a 20yrs old rookie by running simulator with Renault, 2-3 tests with the actual car, simulator runs with Williams and a very extensive testing opportunity with 2014 and 2017 cars.

2.Renault took Sainz over him straight away.as soon as the chance appeared, they chose Sainz over him.

3.He has failed to mark a clear advantage over a number of refugees from other teams and that's why we have not seen an announcement so far.

Still I believe he will get the seat.probably the delay is for extracting some friday runs from him and Stroll for Sirotkin and his money which is causing a delay.
But whoever gets the seat it's clear we will end up with "what if we had Alonso in fw41" as the season starts and we won't know the true potential of the car.

Btw, comparing the situations with Sauber is quite funny too.their downfall started as they came out of good years with good drivers line ups.

Ian, your point too seems to be too dark imo.The teams has come out of disasterous times of mid 2000s and early 2010s with much harder situations.with your logic, the existence of Force India, Haas and even STR are fictions...and about those you called for selling stakes to, I think overally we should be happy the answer has been negative as 2/3 of them are not in F1 now.we are.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 18:59
Quote:
Mehryar
1.Kubica was given more chances than a 20yrs old rookie by running simulator with Renault, 2-3 tests with the actual car, simulator runs with Williams and a very extensive testing opportunity with 2014 and 2017 cars.

And why is that? Because he was too slow and crippled and didnt do the job needed? Good thing that Renault and Williams are dumb and kept giving him the opportunities all along.

Quote:
Mehryar
2.Renault took Sainz over him straight away.as soon as the chance appeared, they chose Sainz over him.

Kubica made Renault scratch their heads after Valencia test, and later after Riccardo Tormo. Renault had plans for Sainz all along, Prost was a factor in the decision to go with him. Engine saga helped. That was a win-win scenario for them, also the cheapest.

Quote:
Mehryar
3.He has failed to mark a clear advantage over a number of refugees from other teams and that's why we have not seen an announcement so far.

It would be awesome to see some precise data about that, but unfortunately it is only a speculation at this point. Williams knows, noone else. We dont know. You are assuming too much. You dont know if the delay is about Kubica at all. They will go with the fastest driver to offset Strolls struggles in 2018.

Quote:
Mehryar
Still I believe he will get the seat.

Well, I guess Williams are a bunch of amateurs then - Paddy, the whole bord, Frank, Claire etc. will get him the seat because its a nice PR story. Oh, and i forgot that Kubica will now be a pay driver cause hes bringing them so much money that probably all of it will be spent to repay his ensurance anyway. I mean, You presented all the hard evidence that Kubica is clearly not the right person for the job.

Quote:
Mehryar
I check the news sites

Congratulations, now show me the telemetry of the test at Silverstone and Hungary, both Kubicas and DiRestas. DiResta was praised for his great substitution of Massa in Hungary by alot of jurnos, whole Sky and BBC team, that was his perfect chance for a comeback after was known, that Massas seat will be vacant. It was reported DiResta was faster over Kubica, every week Sky was trying to help him praising him before everyone, Lazenby even quoted Smedley and said that the fastest guy will get the seat and he said that multiple times on air "and Paul was faster than Kubica". Ok - faster when, under what conditions, setup etc? All these things matter. Not everything is black and white, do not trust the timesheet blindly in F1, ever.
I wanna agree with You that Kubica isnt the guy for Williams. I want to see how could they go with him in Abu Dhabi.

I mean, I'm not a die hard Kubica fan like some other people are, and i want to see the best available driver at Williams. I just see the empty info other people write and once, just once would like to know the reason of it. Give me a straight AMuS or Hughes article with FACTS (you know, the data - telemetry, sector times, exact tyres used at each stint, state of the tyre the stint started at, fuel loads, air temp, track temp, wind, traffic during qualy and long runs etc, and not Karpov's handwritten sector times and stints from Abu Dhabi), not some Bensons, Hamiltons or Buxtons bullshit.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 20:16 by GiorgioF1.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 21:15
My down mood isn't because of Kubica getting the seat or not, it's the mess around all this tests and driver choice and to have an inner feeling that Williams will disappoint once again even after taking so long to pick a driver.

I wouldn't mind Wherlein or at worst Kvyat if it's true Kubica isn't up for the job.

But please Rowland, Sirotkin, DiResta for that they should have retained Massa.

Another guy talking to much is Vettel about Kubica and oh that's a pitty for young drivers, really is Williams a junior team?!? How old is Ferraris line up?? Vet 31 or 32 and Rai 36 or 37 and Williams it's a pitty for young drivers!



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Mehryar (IP Logged)
10 December, 2017 22:34
Quote:
GiorgioF1
And why is that? Because he was too slow and crippled and didnt do the job needed? Good thing that Renault and Williams are dumb and kept giving him the opportunities all along.

2 easy reasons : 1.Tests were done by 2 seprated teams. 2.our other options are mediocre at best.

Quote:
GiorgioF1
Kubica made Renault scratch their heads after Valencia test, and later after Riccardo Tormo. Renault had plans for Sainz all along, Prost was a factor in the decision to go with him. Engine saga helped. That was a win-win scenario for them, also the cheapest.

Really? who scratched his head?! and then they saw wow, that was a great performance by the guy but we turn our back to him, ignore their team boss and stick to love-fest of their advisor to Sainz?

Quote:
GiorgioF1
It would be awesome to see some precise data about that, but unfortunately it is only a speculation at this point. Williams knows, noone else. We dont know. You are assuming too much. You dont know if the delay is about Kubica at all. They will go with the fastest driver to offset Strolls struggles in 2018.

Do you need any more evident data than clear fact that the line up is not sorted yet? it's evident that the advantage of any of the candidates is not clear after such a long time and so many tests or else we could see the result immediately.It's quite funny some of you go through unnamed sources to read someone scratched his head in Renault garage by the pace of Kubica in a car from 2 generations ago, but you ignore reading what's written by most pundits about the actual reason of postponing drivers announcement in Williams after so many tests.

Quote:
GiorgioF1
Well, I guess Williams are a bunch of amateurs then - Paddy, the whole bord, Frank, Claire etc. will get him the seat because its a nice PR story. Oh, and i forgot that Kubica will now be a pay driver cause hes bringing them so much money that probably all of it will be spent to repay his ensurance anyway. I mean, You presented all the hard evidence that Kubica is clearly not the right person for the job.

I would be glad to see where I have said he shouldn't get the drive.that's bull$hit you make out of nothing.what I say clearly is anyone who is going to get that second seat, no difference, we won't have a top driver there.you can understand what I mean with a 2 digit IQ.

------------------

Btw, I really loved your attitude for attacking a simple post as much as a...I wanted to say a turtle but honestly, I love the turtles so forget about it.

I have a simple suggestion for you.except making conspiracy theories, making an ID, attacking others for their personal point of view, it's better to take a deep breath and check some controlling anger classes.

Anyway, welcome to the board...not the best way to start posting...but anyway, welcome.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Who Will drive for Williams in 2018?
Carinni (IP Logged)
11 December, 2017 01:41
I think at this moment, a competitive chassis is more important than getting a top driver to get a better result. Not having a winning chassis, no top driver is willing to drive for u. And as per perez said, a best n a worst driver gap is usually around 0.2s (though it is 0.7s to 1s in Williams case), so to get a better result n more money share, policy weight shifting more to a pay driver is a clever n appropriate strategy for Williams. I think speed is not the top priority, the money deal behind is the main concern at this moment. Thats what Williams is considering. Need a smart compromise.

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