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Williams 2018 not looking good
Andrew Hooper (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 09:00
If we go with Sirotkin as the second driver for 2018 it is my view that Williams is going to have another year of disappointments and struggles. Looks like money again is the primary motivation behind the teams reported choice even though Sirotkin did again according to reports out perform Kubica.

Sirotkin has had so little F1 experience that I get the feeling that 2018 would be a year where he would simply be getting up to speed.

I also still wonder how much the Stroll backing is having on the teams choices.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
gpl (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 11:02
We do not know all the facts yet but what i will say is
it is one thing being fast in a private test it is another
when surrounded by 19 other cars/drivers all after the same piece of asphalt.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Gunk (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:28
Quote:
Andrew Hooper

Sirotkin has had so little F1 experience

He has lots of experience as a con man however, Andrew.


Quote:
Telegraph, July 2013
Turning the corner: Sauber's financial woes have been resolved


By Tom Cary
1:08PM BST 15 Jul 2013

Financially-threatened Swiss team Sauber have announced a partnership with three Russian companies which twill provide them with a “solid foundation” in the long term.

As part of the deal, 17-year-old Formula Renault 3.5 racer Sergey Sirotkin will be fast-tracked into a Formula One race seat, possibly as early as next year.

Sirotkin is the son of Oleg Sirotkin, who heads up the National Institute of Aviation Technologies, one of the trio of Russian companies involved in the partnership. The other two are the Investment Corporation International Fund and the State Fund of Development of Northwest Russian Federation

Quote:
Motorsport January 2015

The saga about Force India's apparent financial troubles is continuing.


Luis Vasconcelos, an experienced correspondent writing for Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat, now claims a young driver from Russia is at the centre of the Silverstone based team's absence from the Jerez test.

"According to our sources," he claimed, "the Jerez plans collapsed when Sergey Sirotkin's promised sponsorship money did not arrive."


He was announced as driver by both teams. The money never arrived.

Williams will be the third time loser . . .

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:41
Sirotkin and Stroll the worst F1 line up for a mile.
I'm no fortune teller but Williams only has one way to go with this line up and that's down the order ans I doubt Martini will stick around for this.
Money grabbers don't go far, what kind of difference would you have 5 or 6M from Wherlein or Kvyat , if Kubica's is definatly out!
That won't change our budget that much and we will still end up with two pay and crappy drivers!

Does anyone really believe Stroll is nothing but@#$%&and the same goes for Sirotkin. At least Williams will have two balanced drivers.

Saubers the way Williams going Ffs.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 13:10
Renault got a nice deal, haven't they? They pushed Sirotkin with his SMP money to Williams at the very end, they knew Williams will need alot of money for 2018. Renault themselves never gave Sirotkin a chance apart from few FP's and not even in the official Hungary test or even to replace Palmer with Sirotkin. Renault had the money and waited for someone better - they got Sainz for free. Now Ranault is laughing that they probably eliminated one of their mid-field rivals with Mercedes PU from the battle in the 2018 WCC. Williams made exactly the same mistake with not taking Raikkonen for 2012 season, instead they went with Senna with his brazilian money, Raikkonen went to Lotus and we know what happened that year. It boggles my mind. Even dropping Massa for this, he perhaps might have ben persuaded to race almost for free i guess with some benefits for the scored points, but no, they need the money. It HAD to be alot more than the alleged 15m. I just have a feeling, that this money flowing from Russia will end some time during the season if they wont pay it upfront.
Sauber at least has Leclerc who will drive around Ericsson, we have Sirotkin with 3rd place in GP2 and who has been a reserve driver like forever in F1 because of the money, while GASLY, whom even RedBull didnt want at first, got the championship in 2016.
I honestly thought that if they wont go with Kubica it will be somehow Wehrlein or even Kvyat in that seat, hell, even DiResta would be ok cause he wasnt that bad in his stint with Force India.

Just look at this:

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cea80fb07d7dcf0b6988e7f148a07e81145ea9549b53f2ba197641912f4bc06c.png



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 14:10 by GiorgioF1.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 15:13
Quote:
GiorgioF1
Renault got a nice deal, haven't they? They pushed Sirotkin with his SMP money to Williams at the very end, they knew Williams will need alot of money for 2018. Renault themselves never gave Sirotkin a chance apart from few FP's and not even in the official Hungary test or even to replace Palmer with Sirotkin. Renault had the money and waited for someone better - they got Sainz for free. Now Ranault is laughing that they probably eliminated one of their mid-field rivals with Mercedes PU from the battle in the 2018 WCC. Williams made exactly the same mistake with not taking Raikkonen for 2012 season, instead they went with Senna with his brazilian money, Raikkonen went to Lotus and we know what happened that year. It boggles my mind. Even dropping Massa for this, he perhaps might have ben persuaded to race almost for free i guess with some benefits for the scored points, but no, they need the money. It HAD to be alot more than the alleged 15m. I just have a feeling, that this money flowing from Russia will end some time during the season if they wont pay it upfront.
Sauber at least has Leclerc who will drive around Ericsson, we have Sirotkin with 3rd place in GP2 and who has been a reserve driver like forever in F1 because of the money, while GASLY, whom even RedBull didnt want at first, got the championship in 2016.
I honestly thought that if they wont go with Kubica it will be somehow Wehrlein or even Kvyat in that seat, hell, even DiResta would be ok cause he wasnt that bad in his stint with Force India.

Just look at this:

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cea80fb07d7dcf0b6988e7f148a07e81145ea9549b53f2ba197641912f4bc06c.png

That's another question not going with Kubica brought. Shares on a up tendency until the end of the Pirreli tyre test, the days Robert tested shares going up, two or three days later this Sirotkin sh$$ and down the shares go.

You need the confidence of investors or else this happens.

Who want's to put money in that horse when you know they gonna fail.

Like I said and has much as people may think I'm in a anti-Williams mood, with this policies Williams will be a back runner!

Saubers way of doing things!



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 15:22
Thats a downward spiral from now on. They wont have Randstad and Avanade anymore. Martini will leave after 2018. If Sirotkin wont deliver the goods constantly which Massa would probably do, ita s grim future ahead of Williams.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
speed (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 15:57
I am already on the border when it comes to being a Williams fan. With Sirotkin & Stroll, it will be the last straw & a damn fact that the team is chasing money. Damn sure that they will get $15M from Sirotkin & lose all of it in prize money. Same feelings with PDR too.

I hate the FI team (mainly because of their tainted owners) but at least they have the courage to put real race drivers in there. Sirotkin & Stroll would be worse than Wehrlien & Ericsson!!

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:16
It's a shame SFW doesn't dictate things anymore and Claire is more concerned with her child (which I don't blame) and Paddy seems to be in a money, money money mood.

I would like to believe SFW wouldn't do this to is team.
Williams his now the joke of F1 and the disappointment of his fans.

Look anywhere you want and Williams only get's bad PR. Comments all over the internet from fans realizing we are just a billionaire childs play team and nothings about racing but money either Russian laundry money or Daddy Strolls.

I've said before Russia would have to get a driver in F1 and doesn't matter if hes no good. Kvyat f#@cke} DaCosta to a Torro Rosso race seat and now this guy who did nothing special in his racing carrer and does half a day of testing in Abu Dahbi and it's Williams choise.

What did he do at Renault = zero/nada/zip Robert was faster when they tested Hungaroring.

Fill up your pockets because this team is going down.


#Dissapointment



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:17
Now that our first candidate looks to be not fast enough for that seat, let's hope they won't risk for another rookie.
Stroll/Sirotkin on the grid in Australia and I'm wondering who is going to understand how good our car will be.Stroll started the season with 1sec difference with Massa and this can mean making a 4th best car as worse as an 8th fastest car.then how do they want to show to other drivers that we are capable of making a good car?
Wehrlein is out of radar too.reports say DiResta too.
Now that Kubica is unfortunately off, it may sound weird but let's call Massa again....if not, forget money and get that Kvyat.
Sirotkin has been around too many teams by now, if he was anything good, he would have a race seat now.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:30
There's being an underdog and there's being a sinking ship. We've gone from Bottas and Massa to Sirotkin and Stroll. Drivers like Perez have doubled down on teams with less heritage rather than coming to drive for us. You'd think that being one of few teams to score a podium each year since the new regs would give confidence, but they want to avoid Williams like Plague.

It seriously wouldn't surprise me if we ended up fighting for 15th - 8th next year too.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:39
Well I think you are too optimistic about our chances Mike.
Next year we will have a stable set of rules.engines delta is shrinking and it will shrink even more...we will have a Mclaren with a correct engine, a Renault team with 2 drivers.now you want to send Stroll out on Qualifying to outperform these cars? No way, unless Paddy comes out with a car which is 1sec faster than midfield rivals.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Gunk (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 17:55
It's actually only 1.5 rookies, since Stroll didn't make it to entry level as far as I'm concerned.

This latest story could just be wild speculation of course. If Paddy has built a half-decent car, I'm sure he'd want at least one driver with experience to pedal it. Sirotkin, we hear, only drove the Renault twice in the whole of 2017.

If it isn't Kubica, then surely Wehrlein or Kvyat. I think PDR has essentially the same problem as RK - it is a very long time to be away and start over.

I'm inclined to disbelieve the story. Sirotkin negotiating as reserve, that's always possible.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 20:58
Damn this situation sucks at the moment. I feel that Massa wont come back to Williams. Wehrlein would be good but he will only bring in like ~3m discount on the engine and Toto will not throw 12m or 5m more at Williams, no way. It's either Sirotkin/Kvyat or Kubica with his 8m if the russian money wont materialize. The Williams's board will not be happy with just that 8m i guess and will pressure Kubicas management to get some more $ and will delay the decision. Personally i would take Kubica instead with heavy clauses in the contract in case hes not good enough.

Edit: supposedly Kubica on his private Instagram profile uploaded a photo with "GAME OVER" written all over it.

Here it is:
https://imgur.com/3daPNdS

It IS his private profile with only like 30 real life friends and one of them uploaded this photo for everyone to see (dunno why tho) and almost immediately deleted it.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 14/12/2017 21:44 by GiorgioF1.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Damon96 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 21:43
This could be worse than 2012 - at least Pastor was fast, if inconsistent and crashing a lot. 2018 will be so competitive, drivers will have a huge impact on midfield and we look worse than Sauber or HASS, let alone what Mclaren, Force India or Renault have.

If this is the way the team is going, we should have got in bed with Honda, at least we'd have manufacturer backing and money, we'll probably be out the points anyway most of the time with those two.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 22:06
Honda would be friggin' perfect for us. Tens of millions from them, they are commited, engine would eventually come good if not better, getting rid of Stroll, getting Kubica and Wehrlein instead (dunno about the Merc deal tho) or any other drivers better than Stroll and Sirotkin ffs.
The reality is, if papa Stroll will not buy Force India, that we will probably be stuck with these two for a looooong time. What the hell Williams.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Andrew Hooper (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 00:43
Your comments in regard to Pastor showed that Williams was prepared to gamble in the past even if there was a financial element to Pastor coming on board but at times he did deliver. He won us our last race at a time when I thought it would be impossible to do so.

Come forward all those years and I ask why Williams would not take another gamble with Kubica. He certainly has not been slow in his testing but once again it will come down to money.

As has been mentioned Williams is going to be losing a lot of sponsors after this 2018 season, unless they can convince them to stay, and maybe there are going for the best compromise. But for me it is a compromise that will again see them well down the order at the end of 2018. The way things are they certainly won't challenge Force India.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
speed (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 00:58
Except for one thing - Pastor/Bruno + money were chosen over Kimi. With Kimi, I am convinced we would have been at least 2-3 position up & maybe many more podiums.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Jasper777 (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 08:13
Gentlemen, Gentlemen, lets calm down shall we. we are all fans of Williams and despite posts to the contrary will remain so even if we finish dead last in all of the Grand Prix next year.
of course no one likes a loser but you don't stop supporting your Team no matter what. at least I don't.

now I'm a glass half full person and I believe that paddy WILL design a car that is a good fast car, out of the box. (fingers crossed)

despite what you and I think Williams F1 are proffessionals they've been doing this for a long time, we have to trust them and the decisions they make no matter how frustrating that is to us fans on the outside.

we simply don't know the full extent of the teams finances the pressures they are under to service any debt etc.

they may take the view that by beefing up the design staff they cant afford a "decent" driver and therefore are forced to assess the sponsorship that the likes of Sirotkin et al bring.

have faith in the team and keep supporting them, trust them to make the best decision for the Team going forward.

or do you really believe that anyone associated with Williams F1 is deliberately trying to undermine the race team!!

also they still havn't made a decision, everything even this post of mine is just speculation plain and simple. as frustrating as it is we just have to wait and see.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Polemik (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 08:40
According to the Russian press agency TASS, the new Williams driver will be finally announced this Friday. It will by probably Sirotkin. Or Kwyat.

[translate.google.sk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/12/2017 08:41 by Polemik.

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