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Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 11:07
Quote:
Marco Cardoso
That's why no top driver will ever come to Williams, they know the team operates this way and good drivers get payed not the other way around!

I remember during the season when McLaren were unsure of their future and were thinking of ditching Honda there were rumors of Alonso going to Williams for crying out loud!

We couldnt even pay Massa's salary of supposedly 5 millions and ditched him because of this and people were thinking that Alonso was even considering going to our team when he was paid like 40m by McLaren.

We could have offered Wehrlein some kind of pre-contract and let him even race in DTM or something in 2018 so if Stroll leaves for 2019 and maybe Toto would throw a discount od their engines again for 2018 and maybe even some more money when Wehrlein would get a seat later, we could have even took Kubica's 8m and possibly gain much more in return and have Wehrlein-Kubica for 2019.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2017 11:08 by GiorgioF1.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 11:09
Still you only moan and don't offer any idea what you would do if you were in their shoes?
So going for Wehrlein? Not to mention most guys here bashed Pascal constantly like he is the worst driver on the grid for last 3 months...but I wonder what does he bring as an advantage over Sirotkin? Sirotkin is an unknown quantity.maybe he performs, maybe not...Pascal surely doesn't perform.his 3yrs in F1 has shown that.
Now except moaning non-stop and telling team is @#$%& for this for that, let us know what do you think they should do? If anyone except those 2 russians and their money is good, what is the logic behind it?



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Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 11:19
Quote:
Mehryar
Sirotkin is an unknown quantity.maybe he performs, maybe not...

Well thats friggin great idea... surely if the team thinks that way and took him because of this we have to be happy about the next season.

I just told you what they should have done.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Gunk (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 11:43
Sorry . . . post in progress



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2017 11:45 by Gunk.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 12:03
Quote:
Mehryar
Still you only moan and don't offer any idea what you would do if you were in their shoes?
So going for Wehrlein? Not to mention most guys here bashed Pascal constantly like he is the worst driver on the grid for last 3 months...but I wonder what does he bring as an advantage over Sirotkin? Sirotkin is an unknown quantity.maybe he performs, maybe not...Pascal surely doesn't perform.his 3yrs in F1 has shown that.
Now except moaning non-stop and telling team is @#$%& for this for that, let us know what do you think they should do? If anyone except those 2 russians and their money is good, what is the logic behind it?

Easy! Don't break to pressures keep what was signed with Kubica.
Keep your word!
@Mehryar now you want 2 drivers who don't know how to setup a car on both sides of the garage.
For that you should have kepped Massa!
Then you say engenieers do that, yes into some extent they do, but baby Stroll ultimatly had to came to Massas side of the garage to get is car setuped.
Kubicas only reason for not getting the seat is Money! Not lack of speed or endurance.
At least you'll still have one capable driver.

@thebuxtonblog If it turns out that Sirotkin's Abu Dhabi speed was fishy & @WilliamsRacing go with the SMP pay driver over #Kubica, then both Williams & @F1 will have a massive PR disaster on their hands. As for risk, SMP money has a sanctions problem: [t.co]



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2017 12:26 by Marco Cardoso.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 12:27
I know You guys want to have a calm discussion about our team and we should trust with what they decide. I know they are not dumb and are going with what for them is the best option.

But basing on what is happening right now (and, to tell the truth, is happening for far too long) and Massa confirming today, that they went with the financial decision only, this is very, very hard.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 13:12
Quote:
GiorgioF1
I know You guys want to have a calm discussion about our team and we should trust with what they decide. I know they are not dumb and are going with what for them is the best option.
But basing on what is happening right now (and, to tell the truth, is happening for far too long) and Massa confirming today, that they went with the financial decision only, this is very, very hard.

GiorgioF1 I don't care if it's calm or not! Lot's of guys here talking against my thoughts but I'll stand by them.
I don't have to be quiet while seeing Williams go this way.

I dont care what others here think of me, has in everything in life we can't please everyone.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Carinni (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 13:50
Quote:
GiorgioF1
I know You guys want to have a calm discussion about our team and we should trust with what they decide. I know they are not dumb and are going with what for them is the best option.
But basing on what is happening right now (and, to tell the truth, is happening for far too long) and Massa confirming today, that they went with the financial decision only, this is very, very hard.

Agreed that the team knows what the best option is. Ha ha! I told u that money is the top priority in Williams now, needs no massa’s confirmation, very clear.

The logic is simple, we don’t have a winning chassis, no winning chassis u definitely are impossible to have top drivers, but we hired high profile technical guys. Now u have only 5 dollars, a winning chassis costs u $5, a top driver costs u $5 too, then, what will u do?

We all know that it needs both winning chassis n top drivers to win the title. But u have only 5 dollars in your pocket now, what will u do?

So I agreed with u and I trust the team, they are not dumb. Though it is not easy to efficiently n effectively use the money from Sirotkin deal n build the needed chassis, maybe just a repeat of 2012, but it is still the only chance to win the title. Anyway, I repeated too many, should not repeat this view point anymore. Just want to give u a ‘like’



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2017 14:05 by Carinni.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
juras (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 17:19
hello,
I think the thing is as follows. Until Williams is in the position of a team that has the potential to win the championship, it is no use to hire the top pilot. Even the top pilot can not win the championship with the average car.
If Williams increases the budget and builds a top-class car, he will be able to pick from top pilots.
The bottom line is to move the team up the level above. Paddy is now a key personality ... he has to oversee the rise of the team, unfortunately we have taken a step or even two back in the last two years. Let's hope Paddy and his organization. The year 2018 will show whether Williams regains the wind in the sails or stays in the position of the average team.

Sorry for my English...

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 17:44
Marco so you basically ask for scrapping the faster option in favor of the slower one? Why? Cause the faster guy brings more $ ?! Or because of keeping the beautiful story of a comeback, alive? Thanks but if Kubica was the slower guy and he is sidelined, that's the only part you can respect the team over drivers decision this year.

Giorgio, that was a nice scenario but do you think Mercedes will keep on supporting Pascal for his future seat in F1? I don't think there's 1% possibility in it.they have Ocon and already Pascal showed nothing over 3yrs to be given a seat in f1 without a financial advantage.for me, he's out and must stay out purely because of his performance.

Well Massa may summed it up very well.said the decision over drivers is money-oriented...wisely mentioned Kubica too...so whether we get Kubica or Sirotkin, they are going to be as pay drivers....now in eyes of some fans, plan A with Kubica $ was a great idea, showing the team is going to be a world champ soon but plan B with a faster driver and his $ is a terrible idea and shows the team is on the way to be out of F1 soon.

Nice logics.



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Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 17:58
Quote:
Mehryar
Marco so you basically ask for scrapping the faster option in favor of the slower one? Why? Cause the faster guy brings more $ ?! Or because of keeping the beautiful story of a comeback, alive? Thanks but if Kubica was the slower guy and he is sidelined, that's the only part you can respect the team over drivers decision this year.
Giorgio, that was a nice scenario but do you think Mercedes will keep on supporting Pascal for his future seat in F1? I don't think there's 1% possibility in it.they have Ocon and already Pascal showed nothing over 3yrs to be given a seat in f1 without a financial advantage.for me, he's out and must stay out purely because of his performance.

Well Massa may summed it up very well.said the decision over drivers is money-oriented...wisely mentioned Kubica too...so whether we get Kubica or Sirotkin, they are going to be as pay drivers....now in eyes of some fans, plan A with Kubica $ was a great idea, showing the team is going to be a world champ soon but plan B with a faster driver and his $ is a terrible idea and shows the team is on the way to be out of F1 soon.

Nice logics.

Were did you see Sirotkin faster I just saw Sirotkin with more money! but less Knowhow, less fans, less market, less prone to be good for Williams image, and way less charisma.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2017 18:17 by Marco Cardoso.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 18:46
Quote:
Marco
Were did you see Sirotkin faster

Take a look at this :

Kubica was the frontrunner, but Sirotkin’s performance compared favourably to the Pole’s after they drove in the Abu Dhabi Pirelli test.

Williams has insisted throughout the process that its decision on the driver to partner Stroll will be based purely on performance. As a result, Kubica, who was bidding to return to the grid for the first time since 2010, was informed he was no longer in the running.


Source : Motorsport.com

and this is just ONE of the sources claiming Sirotkin was more impressive in those tests.if your sources are Polish websites, you can check your facts again.

Quote:
Marco
I just saw Sirotkin with more money!

Would be interesting to see where did you read that? Polish websites or Russians? Your believe one-sided sources honestly?!

Quote:
Marco
but less Knowhow, less fans, less market, less prone to be good for Williams image, and way less charisma.

I thought you are angry of Williams because their decision is financially affected and not performance based.but looks like you care more than them on what a driver can make on marketing side of the team and thus its finance!
Not more fans make a driver drive a car faster, nor a better market, nor a better image and nor a more charismatic character.His speed make him drive faster.whether his name is Kubica or Sirotkin, no difference.



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Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 19:05
Believe what you want Mehryar I'ved read all that and many more sources contrary to that and still you see it your way and I'll see mine.

Every website says Sirotkin brings more money Polish, Russian, English or what you want.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
M79 (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 21:17
Check out the piece by Andrew Benson on the BBC website : [www.bbc.com]

I think it details the situation and the considerations pretty accurately.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
GiorgioF1 (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 21:46
From the translator:

"According to what we have learned in the last hours, the Polish driver together with his manager, Nico Rosberg, would meet again the top of the English team bringing a new proposal on the table . The 2016 world champion would have studied a formula of this type: a minimum number of Grand Prix for Kubica in 2018 (seven), the guarantee of bringing in an amount close to the million US $ a contested race and an option for the remaining part of the season , linked to the performances in the race against the teammate.

In this way, Williams would reduce to a minimum the risk related to Kubica's physical condition, could still deploy Sirotkin in Friday's free practice and 14 of the 21 Grand Prix scheduled for next year, making sure at least another 10 million US $ from the Russian pilot !

Claire Williams and dad Franck would seriously consider this possibility and hence the decision to postpone the communication on the final line for the 2018 world championship in January."

http://www.circusf1.com/2017/12/kubica-rosberg-giocano-jolly-williams-prende-rimanda-decisione-2018.php?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

What do You guys think about this?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2017 21:57 by GiorgioF1.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
15 December, 2017 22:51
Maybe the best way to go if there is not much between the 2.



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Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Carinni (IP Logged)
16 December, 2017 01:11
Lol! Willians said their decision will be based on performance! What a lie!
If purely on performance n money doesn’t make a difference, y should I pay u £15m? Ha ha!
Williams thinks we are dumbs.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Stu69 (IP Logged)
16 December, 2017 07:19
I really don’t like Massa but he seems to be faster than both the candidates for his seat. Mad!!

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Gunk (IP Logged)
16 December, 2017 09:52
Quote:
GiorgioF1
In this way, Williams would reduce to a minimum the risk related to Kubica's physical condition, could still deploy Sirotkin in Friday's free practice and 14 of the 21 Grand Prix scheduled for next year, making sure at least another 10 million US $ from the Russian pilot

So, this way Williams get to empty the pockets of two drivers in one season. It's obscene.

 
Re: Williams 2018 not looking good
Mehryar (IP Logged)
16 December, 2017 11:49
Gunk, same question to you.
I am with all you guys that being in such a terrible situations should have been prevented a couple of months ago when Sainz, Ocon and Alonso were possibilities.
But we did not move on time, stuck with hopes of a driver who was once brilliant to only see he is average.
Now reality is our options are all terrible.what would you do if you were the decision maker? Forget what we should have done 5months ago, think about now.
To me, when being left with 4-5 mediocre options, I would drag it until I can get the last penny out of their pockets.none of these guys are good enough for a race seat without financial backing so what Williams does now is quite acceptable with what's on the table.



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