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Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
05 January, 2018 08:44
Good morning,

Toto has been quoted as being positive about the Ferrari/Alfa/Sauber tie up and suggesting that something similar might make sense for Mercedes.

So would Williams running Mercedes engines branded as Smart make sense?

European sales of Smart don’t seem to be going that well varying between 70K and 110K per year so an image boost may well be needed and such a deal could be relatively cheap for Mercedes. Free engines in exchange for the sort of space that Renualt had in the 1990s and if Rexona are not going to be there is 2018 then the side pods for an extra £10-20million?

As well as being a positive for the Smart brand it would give Ferrari and Mercedes a very strong hand in future negotiations, we now support four teams and we are not going to simplify the engines or accept less money!

In the old days I would have assumed that “the simplify the engine plan” was a Bernie ploy, something to be given up in exchange for reorganising the prize money pool. With Liberty there is no history to say that they do or don’t use such tactics.

So there is no guarantee that post 2020 the prize pool will look any fairer. From Williams’ perspective they would be getting a well funded sponsor, assurances of an engine supply and possibly a bit of access to some technical resources that Merc may have and they don’t.

The trouble is that all these argument would easily apply to a Smart powered Force India.

Bye

Ian

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 05:46
Normally I would say that using F1 to promote Smart cars is faintly ludicrous.

Then again, Guy Ligier only made those funny moped powered microcars in any volume. I seem to remember you could drive them without a license in France.

However, I read the reports and Toto does indeed seem interested in a 'B' team idea. Personally, I'm not sure Williams would sell its independence, but Force India might well consider it.

This week there was a court ruling against VJM which will allow the Indian government to seize VJ's assets and real estate in the country. VJ still has to appeal the extradition order.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Damon96 (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 16:06
I could see them accepting money and sponsor to take a Merc driver, but it would have to be as a pure sponsorship deal, if it became a B team like Toro Rosso to Red Bull, that would be the end of everything Williams has stood for.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
andy si (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 16:24
Sure, it would do Williams no harm in picking up SMART sponsorship from Mercedes.
But it's not likely when Williams are not rvrn their fastest option on the grid.
Something may happen if FW41 is not a dud and rises the team back towards the front of the grid.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
K1 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 09:43
@ Damon 96...'What Williams stand for'means zippedy doo dah in the context of todays F1. That was in a different era, different cars etc etc. All this BS about 'we only exist to race' is past its use-by date. Out dated platitudes mean nothing when it comes down to race by race performances and building a a repertoire of results. Considering what Force India can do makes Williams look decidedly shabby. What they need to do is demonstrate that they have the wherewithal to start a comeback and keep the impetus going throughout the year.Now if Paddy lowe can build a decent car with the best engine of all time in the back, we may just see the slow renaissance of Williams. A very big ask but not impossible...

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 13:36
Paddy is quite adamant that the team must find a works deal. This from an interview in GP+ at the time of the Mexican GP.

“There is also a long game
here to get Williams back to the top
of the game,” he says. “One of the
worst misses right now is that we
don’t have a works engine. The last
opportunity for that slipped away
12 years ago 1 with BMW. Williams
is a fantastic destination for a
manufacturer, one of the strongest
brands in the sport. We are still a
full constructor which is actually not
true for quite a lot of the candidates
out there, who are now customers
for many parts. We have the right
assets. Very few teams actually own
their own facility, most of them live
in a rented industrial base.
“Frank was strategic
enough in the mid 1990s when he
bought the site,” he says. “It was a
very very large site and there is still
a lot of potential to expand, and it
is owned by the company. We’re
a listed company and so there is a
certain stability. It is no secret that
we are looking for the possibility of
finding a factory engine deal. We’re
very happy with the work that we
do with Mercedes and the power
unit that they supply, but even they
understand what we need to do.”

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Mehryar (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:17
I am still with my idea of 1 year ago and today performance of Honda (in a very small scale ) can tell it's not a bad idea.
Let the STR do the donkey job this year and let us grab the works deal with Honda.with any scenario they are the best option for a work deal.even if tomorrow VW tell they want to join, still they are 4 yrs behind Honda.
The new generation of engines will remove mgu-h which is one the biggest problems Honda had in last couple of years.
STR is not and can not be the main team for them.they need a team with facilities which between available options, us and RBR are the only teams to have them.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Marco Cardoso (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:36
Quote:
Mehryar
I am still with my idea of 1 year ago and today performance of Honda (in a very small scale ) can tell it's not a bad idea.
Let the STR do the donkey job this year and let us grab the works deal with Honda.with any scenario they are the best option for a work deal.even if tomorrow VW tell they want to join, still they are 4 yrs behind Honda.
The new generation of engines will remove mgu-h which is one the biggest problems Honda had in last couple of years.
STR is not and can not be the main team for them.they need a team with facilities which between available options, us and RBR are the only teams to have them.

If Honda goes well this year they will go for RedBull not Williams and the reason is simple, the took a chance on them.



https://goo.gl/images/VESYsm

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:58
Quote:
Marco Cardoso

If Honda goes well this year they will go for RedBull not Williams and the reason is simple, the took a chance on them.

Who knows - nothing is set in stone. RBR has the Aston Martin connection and apparently the consortium idea of a new independent engine is not dead.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Mehryar (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 19:13
RBR has already a terrible reputation of their PR over engine supplier.Honda had one with Mclaren.can't take another period like that.After all they are there for advertising their brand and money.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:32
I think we should have tried to get Honda. I believe that Alonso did so much damage to the brand that he convinced all other teams not to take them. The Honda will come good. At least as good as the Renault very soon and think of all that financial support. It must have been on the minds of our team. A risk, yes. But a long term deal and with MGUH gone soon.....

I can't personally see how a tie up with RBR and Aston works for Honda. Aston wants to make it's own engine. Unless Honda take a works team like us and re-badge the motor for Aston / RBR in exchange for a road car deal?

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:36
The Honda is currently enjoying a reasonable winter. The str has been fast and reliable. Mind you, the Honda hated the warm and humid.

Honda could fill the hole of losing martini. Str will have whatever red bull have in the future

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
AlanJones (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 13:01
Honda would have been a perfect fit for us. Ive said it before. And I will keep on saying this.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 14:05
Perhaps we have an option with them should RBR stay with Renault? Obviously would have been not ideal this season with Paddy knowing the merc so well but maybe STR is a stop gap while they get it all together? It certainly looks OK in the speed traps at the moment. I believe the problem has always been running out of deployment rather than sheer BHP but surely that can be fixed?

All that financial support could take the team to another level.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 15:30
Quote:
Ozzy Osborne

All that financial support could take the team to another level.

Yes, there was a certain over the top reaction by McLaren. They did get 90m a year plus untold resources and personnel support. Disappointing episode for them, but they were hardly out of pocket.

i think Monisha Kaltenborn was much maligned for wanting a bit of the same spare dosh. She had the choice of running around the back of the field on a shoestring or in luxury. Seemed like a no brainer to me.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
hemorrhage (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 11:56
Williams will have Porsche next!

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Gunk (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 12:55
Decision Time For RBR In May

Quote:
RENAULT IMPOSES DEADLINE FOR RED BULL-HONDA ENGINE CALL

Renault Formula 1 boss Cyril Abiteboul imposes a May deadline for Red Bull to decide over its 2019 engine supplier. Red Bull's contract with Renault ends at the end of the 2018 season and the team is keeping the options open for the next season.

Renault is not accepting Red Bull's statement and wants the Austrian team to comply with Appendix 9 of the FIA's F1 Sporting Regulations.: "We are not going to hang around forever," Abiteboul told Autosport. "I know what Christian is referring to when he says that he has options. There is one thing that is clear, and that is planning, and there will be a deadline for Red Bull Racing to define what they want for the future. It's available, it's in the sporting regulations.


 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Polemik (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:06
Quote:
Gunk
Decision Time For RBR In May
Quote:
RENAULT IMPOSES DEADLINE FOR RED BULL-HONDA ENGINE CALL

Renault Formula 1 boss Cyril Abiteboul imposes a May deadline for Red Bull to decide over its 2019 engine supplier. Red Bull's contract with Renault ends at the end of the 2018 season and the team is keeping the options open for the next season.

Renault is not accepting Red Bull's statement and wants the Austrian team to comply with Appendix 9 of the FIA's F1 Sporting Regulations.: "We are not going to hang around forever," Abiteboul told Autosport. "I know what Christian is referring to when he says that he has options. There is one thing that is clear, and that is planning, and there will be a deadline for Red Bull Racing to define what they want for the future. It's available, it's in the sporting regulations.


Interesting ... the deadline for engine choice from FIA is July(?) and from Renault is May ... so RedBull will have to decide 2 months before the FIA deadline ! (Sm1)

It's a nice gift from Renault to RBR for that slander, very nice !! (Sm80)thumbs down

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Mehryar (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:31
If Honda turns to be a reliable engine comes the first race, Williams should not waste the time.they should move as RBR will not let this chance slip away.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Dylan's Together Through Life Hits The Stores.

 
Re: Should Williams “Change” their engine in 2018?
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:49
I suppose it depends on RBR's position on F1 in general. Are they looking for a smooth exit with Aston taking over gradually? Or are they staying and if so, why the Aston deal? I can't see Honda being happy with their main team being branded up as Aston Martin. That makes no sense. So if RBR do decide on Honda, does that mean Aston are gone?

Williams Honda is a perfect fit and with Martini gone, maybe even better.

I believe our only real chance of getting back to the front is to get a major manufacturer on board and Honda may just be about to come on strong.

To be honest, I believe that Mclaren acted under pressure from Alonso and have now become a customer team who pay for their engines. I think it will probably be seen to be a mistake in the future. Can they really take ALO to his next title against Merc and Fiat? I don't see it happening. Maybe they can. But they've still got the 3rd best engine on the grid and who knows, it may be the worst one if Honda have pulled an ace.

I also can't see Honda being happy with TR being their 'works' team. They will want more than that. RBR? Doesn't seem to fit and the Japanese will not take kindly to the lack of diplomacy that RBR put out about their partners as it's often brutal.

Unless Honda are looking to buy FI, we are surely the logical step forward?

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