f1
Latest News:

2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Countdown

Days
Hours
Minutes
Seconds

Goto Page: 123456Next
Current Page: 1 of 6
Fix The FW41
gpl (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:07
The more i think about the current state of our car the more i am thinking this is the biggest mess Williams have been in with a new car.

anyway i would like to hear some opinions on what you think is causing the issues poor performance on this new car.

I think they will have to design a new chassis or at least modify it in some way.

Maybe the halo has caused more problems stress/restriction than envisaged in the initial design.


So i think chassis rethink
Suspension rethink either design or positioning.
or both.


I think we are in for our toughest season in a long long time.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Anderis (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:33
Quote:
gpl
I think we are in for our toughest season in a long long time.
Do you mean our toughest season in our history? Because 2013 was not so long ago.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:34
Think you will find when a car loses performance in top speed AND corners with understeer and oversteer that's all symptoms of aerodynamic downs syndrome.

The suspension is largely similar to last year so can't suddenly cripple a car same as the chassis.

It comes down to the airflow management from the cape to the diffuser. Somewhere, air is going the wrong way. To just lose downforce would suggest redirecting flow. To lose straight line speed substantially suggests a high pressure build-up which is causing the car to create more drag.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Ihminen (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:36
chassis including badly designed suspension or it being too stiff, floor, diffuser, s-duct not working with the halo, the halo itself, weight ballance shift, tight packaging causing cooling issues, overweight car with too heavy gearbox casing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2018 16:40 by Ihminen.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:47
Quote:
Ihminen
chassis including badly designed suspension or it being too stiff, floor, diffuser, s-duct not working with the halo, the halo itself, weight ballance shift, tight packaging causing cooling issues, overweight car with too heavy gearbox casing, drivers to some degree

No such thing as too stiff man. 100%rigidity in the chassis is the dream in all race cars. Or are you saying the suspension is too stiff? Because that is just a setup not a design fault. Geometry is a design fault that doesn't impact stiffness.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Ihminen (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:56
Not in the chassis ofc, i meant the suspension, cause what pgj described somewhere about the tyre being off the track while others were firmly on it, maybe our soft suspension setup isnt working that well? Could the car not be responding well to changes in the suspension for whatever reason? When you change one thing, cant something alse get screwed like diff and anti-roll bar as well? Maybe there is no harmony with these things on FW41 and thats what we are pursuing

edit: the problems with this car are baffling, Paddy even said that "The correlation is pretty sound". So if everything works as seen in the wind tunnel and the cfd, how come that the FW41 can be so undriveable and slow?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2018 16:08 by Ihminen.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
gpl (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 16:35
Try and keep drivers out of this for now please.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
gpl (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 16:54
What do you put poor drive out the corners fast and slow i think is down to Mike
same thing aero?? or a combination of factors

 
Re: Fix The FW41
gpl (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:10
What can we put this problem with the car down to, how have they got it so wrong, at least 3 very experienced people seemed to of really cocked up and yet the numbers they have got from the wind tunnel and CFD had given them promise of very good readings on downforce and low drag on paper.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
phatjack (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:13
Push or Pull-rod? Which suspension does the FW41 employ?

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:17
Quote:
gpl
What do you put poor drive out the corners fast and slow i think is down to Mike
same thing aero?? or a combination of factors

Thus is my kind of thread. Poor drive out of fast corners is aero. Poor drive out of slow corners is all about mechanical grip letting the tyres bite. The evidence suggests that as the car doesn't wheelspin and step out, the rear of the car is not too stiff but tortional rigidity is tested at its peak in these conditions and a carbon fibre gearbox would certainly help reduce the traction issues we've had in all of our previous cars.

You could determine that the car was poor in downforce, traction and straight line speed. The car apparently is not the worst in slow corners. But worst on straights & fast corners.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:17
Quote:
phatjack
Push or Pull-rod? Which suspension does the FW41 employ?

Front push rear pull.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:20
Quote:
Ihminen
Not in the chassis ofc, i meant the suspension, cause what pgj described somewhere about the tyre being off the track while others were firmly on it, maybe our soft suspension setup isnt working that well? Could the car not be responding well to changes in the suspension for whatever reason? When you change one thing, cant something alse get screwed like diff and anti-roll bar as well? Maybe there is no harmony with these things on FW41 and thats what we are pursuing
edit: the problems with this car are baffling, Paddy even said that "The correlation is pretty sound". So if everything works as seen in the wind tunnel and the cfd, how come that the FW41 can be so undriveable and slow?

If the team has been forced to run a very stiff setup, it's in pursuit of stabilising the aerodynamic performance of the car in all phases of the corner. I think you will find it's desirable to have a softer car but aerodynamic performance is what they are chasing. That is assuming it is particularly stiff. McLaren had to use tactics like this alot when fighting red bull on high downforce tracks which button struggled with more than Hamilton.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
gpl (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:21
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
phatjack
Push or Pull-rod? Which suspension does the FW41 employ?

Front push rear pull.


Why do you ask this??

 
Re: Fix The FW41
gpl (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:25
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
gpl
What do you put poor drive out the corners fast and slow i think is down to Mike
same thing aero?? or a combination of factors

Thus is my kind of thread. Poor drive out of fast corners is aero. Poor drive out of slow corners is all about mechanical grip letting the tyres bite. The evidence suggests that as the car doesn't wheelspin and step out, the rear of the car is not too stiff but tortional rigidity is tested at its peak in these conditions and a carbon fibre gearbox would certainly help reduce the traction issues we've had in all of our previous cars.

You could determine that the car was poor in downforce, traction and straight line speed. The car apparently is not the worst in slow corners. But worst on straights & fast corners.


I can see you are sticking to your Aero theory then.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:30
Quote:
gpl
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
gpl
What do you put poor drive out the corners fast and slow i think is down to Mike
same thing aero?? or a combination of factors

Thus is my kind of thread. Poor drive out of fast corners is aero. Poor drive out of slow corners is all about mechanical grip letting the tyres bite. The evidence suggests that as the car doesn't wheelspin and step out, the rear of the car is not too stiff but tortional rigidity is tested at its peak in these conditions and a carbon fibre gearbox would certainly help reduce the traction issues we've had in all of our previous cars.

You could determine that the car was poor in downforce, traction and straight line speed. The car apparently is not the worst in slow corners. But worst on straights & fast corners.


I can see you are sticking to your Aero theory then.

Happy to be wrong if it means an easier fix. It's just the only past of the car we've actually changed too.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:31
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
gpl
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
gpl
What do you put poor drive out the corners fast and slow i think is down to Mike
same thing aero?? or a combination of factors

Thus is my kind of thread. Poor drive out of fast corners is aero. Poor drive out of slow corners is all about mechanical grip letting the tyres bite. The evidence suggests that as the car doesn't wheelspin and step out, the rear of the car is not too stiff but tortional rigidity is tested at its peak in these conditions and a carbon fibre gearbox would certainly help reduce the traction issues we've had in all of our previous cars.

You could determine that the car was poor in downforce, traction and straight line speed. The car apparently is not the worst in slow corners. But worst on straights & fast corners.


I can see you are sticking to your Aero theory then.

Happy to be wrong if it means an easier fix. It's just the only past of the car we've actually changed too.

The aero only being the top of the iceberg. We were a second off the pace Before that became an issue.

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Ihminen (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:37
Nice read Mike.

Claire herself has said that "clearly everyone always wants more downforce, that’s certainly something that we need to work on. But it’s across the whole car."

 
Re: Fix The FW41
Ihminen (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 18:19
Wonder why we arent running this in fp's:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/features/2017/2/barcelona-day-2---the-latest-from-testing-in-spain/_jcr_content/featureContent/image_4.img.jpg/1488270501031.jpg

http://e1.365dm.com/17/03/16-9/20/skysports-kimi-raikkonen-ferrari-testing_3905341.jpg?20170308093831

https://cdn-5.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0mPMaE56/s8/f1-bahrain-april-testing-2017-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-with-aero-sensors.jpg

 
Re: Fix The FW41
pgj (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 22:28
It is a combination of things. Aerodynamics can always be tweaked but that would not cause the poor traction at low speed that I posted in another thread. I strongly suspect our suspension. F1 suspensions are a two phase system. The first phase deals with damping. The springing and shock absorbsion that we are used to on road cars. The second phase is self leveling to keep the car level when it is cornering. Our car is rolling about in corners so drivers are not prepared to put the car under full load for fear of the car under steering off the track.

I would also not rule out a lack of rigidity in the chassis resulting in poor traction.



Williams and proud of it.

Goto Page: 123456Next
Current Page: 1 of 6

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?