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Re: Australia Friday Practice
ihme (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 14:30
Seems like we need to become the full-on Merc's b-team asap. Just imagine what the performance would be like then. It's an insanity not to become one in these day and age.
The budget cap wont help if we cant produce a stable car with a good amount of downforce. I feel that our aero dept right now is very weak compared to the other teams. We will still be at the back even in 2021+. No good aero guys in their righ mind will want to work for us.
I'm scared to see what McLaren will be like compared to us when James Key and Andreas Seidl will start their work there properly.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
ihme (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 14:34
Our onboards are a greek tragedy. We are making multiple corrections to ever make a simple corner. Other teams are like on rails compared to us. Unbelievable.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Craig atkin (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 14:38
If we think about it Williams and mclaren are the only 2 teams with no alliance with a manufacturer,so take all money and development away from top 3’s B teams and would they be running at same pace as Williams,so are we doing an ok job,but it just doesn’t show because other teams use technology from big 3.ie haas do we really think they would be in that position if they did it all like Williams do.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Niedzwiedz (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 14:40
I am against to become B Team. There wouldnt be a problem if Williams is team with, I dont know, 10 year history. Heritage would be forgotten then. There is a big hope in seasons 21+ couse main aero thing would be ground effect. And this is something Williams should excell at smiling smiley

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Gunk (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 14:53
Quote:
Niedzwiedz
I am against to become B Team. There wouldnt be a problem if Williams is team with, I dont know, 10 year history. Heritage would be forgotten then.

I totally disagree. All kinds of iconic brands are kept alive by marketing rather than substance.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
ihme (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 15:34
Quote:
Niedzwiedz
I am against to become B Team. There wouldnt be a problem if Williams is team with, I dont know, 10 year history. Heritage would be forgotten then. There is a big hope in seasons 21+ couse main aero thing would be ground effect. And this is something Williams should excell at smiling smiley

This is exactly the thinking that will slowly kill this team. We need to go on with the times.
Another year like 2018 and we will lose most of our sponsors and even Claire's magic tricks wont be enough to secure the new ones. Just look what Alfa, Toro Rosso, Haas and Racing Point are doing. Everything went south with Haas entering the F1. We wont have the budget of the McLaren and Renault and we certainly wont have such people like Seidl and Key. Hoping for a great times post 2020 is a suicide for Williams.

Just imagine if we wont be able to close the gap even after Barcelona. How much off the pace we will be in the 2nd part of this season?

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Jasper777 (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 17:11
I can see the benefits and downside to both points of view. Becoming a Merc B team has a certain appeal, but IMO it is ultimately a dead end what B team will ever be allowed to beat the works team, ever.
To become a B team is giving up I would imagine that like me supporters of this team do so because there ideals alighn with the independence streak that runs through and through Williams F1.

I know that we could convince ourselves that it's short term but once you take the queen's shilling theirs no going back.

My belief is that the FW42 is a better more stable car than the FW41, what do I base that on what sources or data am I using. NONE, does that make me an idiot or blind most probably but despite my obvious shortcomings I Believe in Williams even without a recognised TD. This is an opportunity for someone in Team Willy to step up and make there mark.

We can't expect too much from the first couple of races as we were late to the party,.
Realistically what is it we can achieve in this current era of F1 can we beat Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull. Not with our money and budget.

Therefore are we saying that we are settling for best of the rest. Like every other team. That's not Williams DNA nor McLaren's though it pains me to say it.
We expect more hence the outpouring of frustration on this board I share our pain.

But like the majority of supporters of underperforming teams no matter what sport their can be only one winner and by definition everyone else is a loser. Including the likes of Ferrari and Red Bull.

spare a thought for the fans of those two teams,, Ferrari despite having access to all that extra cash more than anyone else still can't win the world title.
Red Bull for all there fun and adventurist corporate image are pouring tonnes of money also without winning the title.

Our time will come when hopefully the F1 title driver and constructed is a level playing field and it means more to beat 9 other teams of equal ability fair and square rather than beating just your two closest rivals.

Where's the satisfaction in that.!!!

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Gunk (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 18:03
Quote:
ihme
Everything went south with Haas entering the F1.

Haas scored 29 points in their first season. Yes, it was a game changer.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
ihme (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 18:33
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
ihme
Everything went south with Haas entering the F1.

Haas scored 29 points in their first season. Yes, it was a game changer.

I guess You forgot about their close partnership with Ferrari they brought to F1... Then Alfa followed... Then Stroll with the Racing Point... And this year Toro Rosso which (as Cyril has said it nicely) they are the team to beat for Renault DESPITE they hadnt a Technical Director in 2018... And we are no match for McLaren and Renault (who might soon do some collab too lol). See the issue now?

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 18:45
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
ihme
Everything went south with Haas entering the F1.

Haas scored 29 points in their first season. Yes, it was a game changer.

I guess You forgot about their close partnership with Ferrari they brought to F1... Then Alfa followed... Then Stroll with the Racing Point... And this year Toro Rosso which (as Cyril has said it nicely) they are the team to beat for Renault DESPITE they hadnt a Technical Director in 2018... And we are no match for McLaren and Renault (who might soon do some collab too lol). See the issue now?

The thing is, williiams proved already that they can do better chassis than dallara and with the extra money and man power in aerodynamics only Williams would be able to push their development a hell of a lot further. They are being plan stupid not taking working parts from Mercedes, and investing more heavily in their ailing aero. Since its all going to be spec in 2 bloody years anyway it just @#$%& me off to no end. Chassis, suspension and aerodynamic surfaces. That s all Williams needs to build and the rest of it can be supplied from the bloody championship winners and we don't even have to be a "b team" just logical.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Vancha (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:19
I'm waiting for Barcelona race. I know that by then we will be the slowest team. Robert is too negative. That disappoints me. He has been in the team for 2 years. Works on FW42 in the simulator. And now he seems unpleasantly surprised.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Stu69 (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:26
If we were a Mercedes B team we could be challenging for second in the championship! When Merc f up we could win races. I would rather have that than what we have had for the last few years.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
ihme (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:35
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
ihme
Everything went south with Haas entering the F1.

Haas scored 29 points in their first season. Yes, it was a game changer.

I guess You forgot about their close partnership with Ferrari they brought to F1... Then Alfa followed... Then Stroll with the Racing Point... And this year Toro Rosso which (as Cyril has said it nicely) they are the team to beat for Renault DESPITE they hadnt a Technical Director in 2018... And we are no match for McLaren and Renault (who might soon do some collab too lol). See the issue now?

The thing is, williiams proved already that they can do better chassis than dallara and with the extra money and man power in aerodynamics only Williams would be able to push their development a hell of a lot further. They are being plan stupid not taking working parts from Mercedes, and investing more heavily in their ailing aero. Since its all going to be spec in 2 bloody years anyway it just @#$%& me off to no end. Chassis, suspension and aerodynamic surfaces. That s all Williams needs to build and the rest of it can be supplied from the bloody championship winners and we don't even have to be a "b team" just logical.

Yeah but somehow I have my doubts that we could actually pull even this off with our current staff. We would need to hire some serious aero guru because adding downforce in the current formula seems like our achilles' foot and we simply arent good enough in that department.
To be honest I would like to have De Beer back right now.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:50
This is awful. How much is avoiding the curbs affecting us? Will we go for it in quali / race? Oh jeez. Hard to be a Williams fan at the mo.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Mikef1 (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:57
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
ihme
Everything went south with Haas entering the F1.

Haas scored 29 points in their first season. Yes, it was a game changer.

I guess You forgot about their close partnership with Ferrari they brought to F1... Then Alfa followed... Then Stroll with the Racing Point... And this year Toro Rosso which (as Cyril has said it nicely) they are the team to beat for Renault DESPITE they hadnt a Technical Director in 2018... And we are no match for McLaren and Renault (who might soon do some collab too lol). See the issue now?

The thing is, williiams proved already that they can do better chassis than dallara and with the extra money and man power in aerodynamics only Williams would be able to push their development a hell of a lot further. They are being plan stupid not taking working parts from Mercedes, and investing more heavily in their ailing aero. Since its all going to be spec in 2 bloody years anyway it just @#$%& me off to no end. Chassis, suspension and aerodynamic surfaces. That s all Williams needs to build and the rest of it can be supplied from the bloody championship winners and we don't even have to be a "b team" just logical.

Yeah but somehow I have my doubts that we could actually pull even this off with our current staff. We would need to hire some serious aero guru because adding downforce in the current formula seems like our achilles' foot and we simply arent good enough in that department.
To be honest I would like to have De Beer back right now.

I agree De Beer leaving to me feels like a big loss. The luxury of cutting out all the mechanical departments is you can hire 100 more aerodynamicists or just a few heavyweight ones. Reform the factory and invest in making sure your aero tech is cutting edge. Add more production facilities for cf

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
ihme (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:58
Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
This is awful. How much is avoiding the curbs affecting us? Will we go for it in quali / race? Oh jeez. Hard to be a Williams fan at the mo.

Easily 1+ seconds. Just look at the KUB onboard. He is braking so much before corners and chicanes so he can take the rest of the turn without hitting the curbs on the exit that it actually looks ridiculous... Even the people on the slow outlaps arent avoiding curbs like we are.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Gunk (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 20:01
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
ihme
Everything went south with Haas entering the F1.

Haas scored 29 points in their first season. Yes, it was a game changer.

I guess You forgot about their close partnership with Ferrari they brought to F1... Then Alfa followed... Then Stroll with the Racing Point... And this year Toro Rosso which (as Cyril has said it nicely) they are the team to beat for Renault DESPITE they hadnt a Technical Director in 2018... And we are no match for McLaren and Renault (who might soon do some collab too lol). See the issue now?

I think you entirely misunderstood. I was agreeing with you, ihme. To score at all, let alone respectably, was quite something for a new team.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Francesc (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 20:13
Even if we were a B team we're so much off the pace that it wouldn't make any difference to our position.

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 20:23
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
This is awful. How much is avoiding the curbs affecting us? Will we go for it in quali / race? Oh jeez. Hard to be a Williams fan at the mo.

Easily 1+ seconds. Just look at the KUB onboard. He is braking so much before corners and chicanes so he can take the rest of the turn without hitting the curbs on the exit that it actually looks ridiculous... Even the people on the slow outlaps arent avoiding curbs like we are.

So do you think is a fundamental weakness in the car ie. we can't touch the curbs in the race, or is it just that we have no spare suspension parts and if not, why the hell not?

 
Re: Australia Friday Practice
Myvatn (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 20:31
Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
This is awful. How much is avoiding the curbs affecting us? Will we go for it in quali / race? Oh jeez. Hard to be a Williams fan at the mo.

Easily 1+ seconds. Just look at the KUB onboard. He is braking so much before corners and chicanes so he can take the rest of the turn without hitting the curbs on the exit that it actually looks ridiculous... Even the people on the slow outlaps arent avoiding curbs like we are.

So do you think is a fundamental weakness in the car ie. we can't touch the curbs in the race, or is it just that we have no spare suspension parts and if not, why the hell not?
If the issue was with suspensions I don’t think we would be running at all, it would be too dangerous.
I think it has to do with other parts (floor?) of which we maybe have few/no spares.

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