new tyres now? could be 3-4 seconds faster

Now Webber lost a second...

---

Mark's either
a) got a problem
b) is saving his tyres for .... something
c) given up the chase

Encouraging pace from us, crappy weekend.

What is he doing? He seems to always drop back then catch back up when following slower cars. Gives me the @#$%&.

---

So, Vettel 5th Webber 8th. Should have been both on the podium.

---

Only fight on the track? What about Webber Button and Schumi?!?

---

Think Mark dropped back to get a run on him, may as well have tried. Well done Seb.

Pretty boring race. Roll on Melbourne.

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

How did Vettel manage a 2:00 on his last 2 laps when he did a 2:05 and a few 2:03's???

Did he lose his @#$%&?

---

Can we get a verdict on the new F1?

My verdict: that really sucked.

Honestly, this year is going to be painful to watch if that's what the 'spectacle' is like.

And Nico, you STILL suck really badly. How did you not pass Seb?

---

________________________
Mark Webber - WINNER 2009 German Grand Prix!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2010 13:48 by RedWebber07.

Holy heck, I really hope that isnt a taste of things to come in regards to how the races are.

I hate to say it, but that was boring. Usual story of faster cars not being able to pass the slower cars.

First points for the season. Could have been worse.

Back to the drawing board...

---

Well done to seb for hanging onto 4th.

Well, it's a long long season and we have the fastest car on the tarmac. Bahrain isn't the best track for us, which bodes so very well.

Congrats to Alonso on scoring a victory for Ferrari on his first outing.

Mm well wasn't that fun.

---

Well in my humble opinion the FIA has kicked a home goal with these new rules. No refuelling plus the 50 metre pit lane rule has made it just about as boring as a motor race can be.

Shite bad luck for Seb (but good job keeping the kraut behind him) and Mark in differing ways. I'm very disappointed with the opening race of the season.

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

A very boring format imo. Bring back re-fuelling or give them super super soft tyres!

---

Just to note (sadly), Mark was LAST of the 'top 4 team' drivers.

You'd better get your qualifying mojo back Webber or you're gonna get smashed and be out of a top car lickety-split.

---

________________________
Mark Webber - WINNER 2009 German Grand Prix!

That Italian anthem bites!

---

Very unhappy with how the races will likely work out. Get rid of the bloody double diffusers, and bring us back some slipstream effect.

I am so damn glad I picked that wildcard. this race. I'm surprised more didn't, being the first race and all, with so many unknowns.

Can the FIA impose mid-year rule changes without FOTA approval?

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

Didn't help that Button had 10km/h or so on us. Nothing much has changed from last year (Mark stuck behind Piquet).

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

Quote:

Jock 2009
Can the FIA impose mid-year rule changes without FOTA approval?

of course not, and given the cars have all been designed with these massive tanks, this is what we're stuck with.

---

________________________
Mark Webber - WINNER 2009 German Grand Prix!

Well they need to do something or FOM is going to go broke! Bring on the first scandal of the year because the racing isn't going to hold people's interest....

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

Webber either needs to get his act together quick, or leave - he has been an embarrassment this weekend. He should have been there to grab the win from Seb when his car failed him.

Happens too often with Mark, we need a stronger driver alongside Seb.

That sucked.
The tyres supplied were too hard. If we are not going to see drivers running out of tyre life there will never be any overtaking unless you get caught out by the 55 metre rule.

The way they all complained about screwing the tyres in a short run, I thought we were going to see a few cars in tyre trouble. It was the only hope to avoid a procession.

---

There will be passing. Esp once all the teams get that extra 10mph stalled wing. I imagine that will be coming through by Australia, or just after.

And knowing RB, we will make a corker of a system that gives us plenty

Also, the races might be a little more fun if we win them =)

I agree blight, something should be done to allow cars to get an advantage when following. Somehow, get a boost for tailgating. would be fun to see ppl overtake four or five times a lap.


This was just boring.... only excitement was the start with webber smoking everywhere... and the end with vettel holding on to fourth. (even if it was dissapointing)

Wasn't a great race, but lets see how it goes. Valencia '08 was a lot worse I think there was some decent action down the field but we just didn't see a lot of it.

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

We should have won that one but it would have still been boring. And you could be right with your comments RedBullLee...but you're not.

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

So did Seb run out of fuel or did the car break more?

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

Quote:

blight
Very unhappy with how the races will likely work out. Get rid of the bloody double diffusers, and bring us back some slipstream effect.

Wrong

Quote:

I don’t think [double diffusers] affected the overtaking. It gave us more downforce and made the cars about a second a lap quicker. That doesn’t change whether the car’s going to overtake or not, there’s no difference in the aerodynamic wake which is what affects the ability of the car behind to overtake.
Adrian Newey

Quote:

blight
There will be passing. Esp once all the teams get that extra 10mph stalled wing. I imagine that will be coming through by Australia, or just after.

Wrong. The difference will be less than 10 clicks and all the cars will have it. You still wont be able to pass once you get in the other cars wake.

---

Michael Schumacher is a hideous man.

---

Sickener. I was expecting a double podium.

Any idea why Webbo could not put JB away?

---

Williams and proud of it.

Quote:

pgj
Sickener. I was expecting a double podium.
Any idea why Webbo could not put JB away?

Because the overtaking working group was a joke and the FIA pay lip service to "the spirit of the rules".

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

I'm off to bed. Night all!

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

Quote:

RedBullLee
Webber either needs to get his act together quick, or leave - he has been an embarrassment this weekend. He should have been there to grab the win from Seb when his car failed him.
Happens too often with Mark, we need a stronger driver alongside Seb.

You're gonna be a popular addition to our board!

Haha, Jez Mk 2

meanwhile, anyone got a working link to the BBC active forum?

---

________________________
Mark Webber - WINNER 2009 German Grand Prix!

Quote:

pgj
Any idea why Webbo could not put JB away?

Did you just wake up?

Because JB has a little wing stalling system that gave him an extra 8 to 10 k's on the straights, plus a Mercedes engine that's apparently considerably more powerful.

Webber was a mile faster in the one-line-only sector 2 where Button couldn't take full advantage of his knee activated power boost.

The question really is why couldn't Button keep up with Schumacher?

---

________________________
Mark Webber - WINNER 2009 German Grand Prix!

Even without the McLaren blown wing, Webber would not of been able to pass JB. As soon as you get within a second of the car in front, you lose downforce.
It was the same deal for Button on Schui, and JB had the blown wing advantage.

---

Quote:

Dr_Colossus

Quote:

blight
Very unhappy with how the races will likely work out. Get rid of the bloody double diffusers, and bring us back some slipstream effect.

Wrong

Quote:

I don’t think [double diffusers] affected the overtaking. It gave us more downforce and made the cars about a second a lap quicker. That doesn’t change whether the car’s going to overtake or not, there’s no difference in the aerodynamic wake which is what affects the ability of the car behind to overtake.
Adrian Newey

Quote:

blight
There will be passing. Esp once all the teams get that extra 10mph stalled wing. I imagine that will be coming through by Australia, or just after.

Wrong. The difference will be less than 10 clicks and all the cars will have it. You still wont be able to pass once you get in the other cars wake.

Thanks for that newey quote, I stand corrected. Although I find it strange that newey would say 'I don't think it would' instead of 'It doesn't'. I mean, he would know for sure right?

As for the second one. No, I think there will be more overtaking once we all have the extra straight speed, because it's level again...

The only way that wouldn't be true is if you foolishly though that no overtaking could be done under normal running of a race

Oh, thats right.

Quote:

Dr Wrong
If we are not going to see drivers running out of tyre life there will never be any overtaking unless you get caught out by the 55 metre rule.

Hehe, yeah of course there will be no overtaking. It just impossible, will never happen...

geez guys just read this thread,....take it easy huh, all the races at different tracks are not going to be like this one this year, chill will ya with the boring comments.

Its all good.

Webber for pole in Melbourne.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----

Quote:

Dr_Colossus
Even without the McLaren blown wing, Webber would not of been able to pass JB. As soon as you get within a second of the car in front, you lose downforce.
It was the same deal for Button on Schui, and JB had the blown wing advantage.

The pit-lane straight is exactly where he could of passed had he not been down on that top speed. Plenty of room to avoid the wake, then take them under braking.

Kinda standard way people pass... Unless someone has much better top speed, or KERS like last year.

Thanks for one of your 13 insightful posts you've made since joining 2 years ago RedBullLee.

Run along now.

Quote:

blight
The pit-lane straight is exactly where he could of passed had he not been down on that top speed. Plenty of room to avoid the wake, then take them under braking.
Kinda standard way people pass... Unless someone has much better top speed, or KERS like last year.

You need to be close enough coming onto the straight. It was never going to happen even without the blown wing.

---

Quote:

Duffer
Michael Schumacher is a hideous man.

Dead sexy. For a goat.

Quote:

Dr_Colossus
You need to be close enough coming onto the straight. It was never going to happen even without the blown wing.

Well, I reckon that if you get a better exit speed onto the straight than the guy in front of you, then your gunna be able to have a shot at it.

When your 10 clicks down on top speed your unlikely to have enough even braking late, but if your even then it is quite doable - and is how most passing is done on tracks like Bahrain that don't have many passing spots.

very unhappy about the result. i just hope seb can bounce back. good thing to note is ferrari ain't all that reliable either, both had to change engines before the race, hmm....

Update from Red Bull saying that upon investigation, Sebs exhaust was fine. The problem was actually a spark plug failure.

Really frustrating that such a small and really bog standard part could cost us the race win - but it means the car is technically sound and it was a third party supplied item that caused the problem.

Looking on the bright side, we finished 4th & 8th with no penalty for either driver for the next race, which is a damn site better than we finished last seasons opening race - and we know how close we came last year.

---

Admin@racingbulls.net
www.racingbulls.net

Actually I reckon they banked on Seb saving more fuel than mark, so they put less in, then the car started leaning out. He stopped only a few hundred metres past the finish line, and his times were very erratic as they kept 'tuning' the engine so he made it to the end.

Reasonable theory anyway. They wouldn't want to admit to such a silly mistake.

Also, as if a dodgy spark plug wouldn't have shown up in telemetry straight away.

Quote:

Actually I reckon they banked on Seb saving more fuel than mark, so they put less in, then the car started leaning out. He stopped only a few hundred metres past the finish line, and his times were very erratic as they kept 'tuning' the engine so he made it to the end.
Reasonable theory anyway. They wouldn't want to admit to such a silly mistake.

WTF??? NO WAY, He started to lose power when there were more than 12 laps to go and it is a very long lap at Bahrain, they would not have put that much less fuel in compared to Marks car.

There is NO WAY Sebs car started to lose power because it was low on fuel and starting to lean out with still like 12 laps to go, WTF??? Silly theory Webbull.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----

He didn't run out of fuel at the end I'm sure, stopped it just in case it was damaging the engine.

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

He didn't run out of fuel at the end I'm sure, stopped it just in case it was damaging the engine.

I agree the team probably told him to stop straight after he crossed the finish line.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----

Whitey, it happens in MotoGP from time to time. If you need to lean the engine to make it to the end, you would need to do it over a large number of laps, not just a few. In motoGP it's automated, and the rider has no control over it.

It was Just a theory anyway.

No way was it a spark plug. If the plug fails the cylinder is gone. Also with the dead plug resistance in the line goes up. We record that on our drag car so Im damm sure an F1 team would know that as soon as it happened.

Does anyone have the last twelve lap times. Would like to see if they where all consistent.

They were all over the place, ranging from 2.05 down to 2.00 as more fuel was spent.

his times looked almost normal when he finished, also supporting my theory!

Did you have your sound muted? It sounded like a pig, there was definitely something on the fritz.

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

Who needs alcohol when you have Rose Water - it must be fanstastic stuff - this is how the Gulf Daily News reported the race...

Quote:

AN action-packed Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix roared to yet another spectacular success yesterday, capping three days of F1 fever.

What were they watching???

I'm prepared to reserve final judgement for a few races to allow the teams to adjust to the strategic and technical permutations of the new regs....But on todays race the new rules look like a big fail.

---

Admin@racingbulls.net
www.racingbulls.net

Quote:

RedBullLee
Webber either needs to get his act together quick, or leave - he has been an embarrassment this weekend. He should have been there to grab the win from Seb when his car failed him.
Happens too often with Mark, we need a stronger driver alongside Seb.

Here we go again. Yes, Mark made a mess of his ONE flying lap in Q3, and he paid the price for it by starting 6th (well, 5.5th with the grid overshoot!), but you just can't pass anymore. He would have been at least 6th but for the engine blip on lap 1 (that cost him 1, maybe 2 spots), and he even got one back, only for the team to drop a tyre or something and lose his place to Button again. Yes, Mark underperformed, but it was because of 1 mistake. Long year, far too early for this sort of crap.

Quote:

Jock
Because the overtaking working group was a joke and the FIA pay lip service to "the spirit of the rules".

My summary...

Seb 1, Mark 0. Bit below par in qualy. He made two errors, and by his admission, cost him 6 tenths. Still wouldn't have put him on seb's pace, but would have had him in the RB v Ferrari fight and clear of the rest.

Looks like two teams have an advantage, and we are one of them, so should be at least a few good weekends during the year!

Feel very sorry for Seb. He controlled everything from Qualy onwards. He is a bit of a star. But people (as seen above) are all too quick to write Mark off after 1 weekend. He'll have his time(s) this year. But this one was Seb's weekend. Horner says he was in conserve mode from lap 3, so we might even be faster than we looked in race trim. Qualy, We've got the measure of them all I think.

BTW, notice that the problem hit almost as soon as the commentators mentioned the possibility of him taking a "Grand Slam"??? (Pole, Win, Pastest Lap, lead every lap)...damn that curse!

But no refueling and slicks were there in the good old days!

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

Quote:

GB2009
BTW, notice that the problem hit almost as soon as the commentators mentioned the possibility of him taking a "Grand Slam"??? (Pole, Win, Pastest Lap, lead every lap)...damn that curse!

As Alison pointed out, it happend as i was typing a message advising him to slow down, and try to break ferrari engines.

But i am happy for the blame to be put on the BBC commentators.

Hey Guys I'm a long time reader of the forums but never got around to registering until now. I'm a big Webbo Fan but a F1 fan 1st & have been watching it religiously since 1993..

Great job by Seb & its a shame he didn't get his 1st win of the season, he sure did everything right this weekend. As some have mentioned, Mark made a mess of his q3 lap which undoubtedly set the scene for his race & hopefully he can bounce back & hit the front row for Melbourne...

Also, after reading this topic I have a couple of questions..

RedWebber07 why on earth would RBR "sabotage" Webber to make him look bad???? I'm a Webber fan too, but I try to keep a level head about it!!

& Clinker, how can a spark plug fault mean quote "the cylinder is gone", I've seen plenty of engines with a faulty sparkplug and all that happens is that cylinder makes no power & the unburnt fuel air mix passes out the exhaust, it doesn't break the cylinder having the spark plug not firing properely! So long as a piece didn't fly off & start bouncing up & down the cylinder walls too much (it didn't he recovered some more power towards the end of the race) b4 it eventually passed out an exhaust valve its a simple matter of changing the plug...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2010 03:52 by DownUnderThunder.

Downunder

By gone I dont mean gone trashed dissapeard. I mean dead, when the plug fails you have no ignition so you loose the cylinder or as I say gone. Its just a term.

Quote:

He would have been at least 6th but for the engine blip on lap 1 (that cost him 1, maybe 2 spots),

Don't think the oil overfill had any effect on Marks start. The way he tells it, he just was fighting the Mercs through T1, but lost out on T2 as they had the racing line. He doesn't mention the oil smoke at all.

---

Admin@racingbulls.net
www.racingbulls.net

Is it just me or did anyone else think all the cars looked visibly slower on the first few laps? I know there carrying alot of fuel but i didn't expect them to so slow.

Quote:

Steelo
Is it just me or did anyone else think all the cars looked visibly slower on the first few laps? I know there carrying alot of fuel but i didn't expect them to so slow.

No not just you, i also thought they did look visually a little slower on TV.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----

Well I have to say a big thank you to Indycar for reminding me that motorsport can be fun, because after that F1 race I had to wonder why I spend so much time worrying about something that is so empty in giving back the entertainment and energy.

The Indycar a few hours later was good, the circuit was Sao Paulo street circuit. First lap, Takuma Sato causes a big crash.

There were lots of overtakes and 2 or 3 laps from the end, Will Power overtook for the lead and the win. But there was some good battles for the lead earlier as well. FIA need to watch an Indycar race. FIA try to reinvent the wheel every season but it always just gets worse. I liked 2005 and 2006 rules the best. Ever since it's gone downhill, but this year is a new low. Unbelievable.

Redbull are fast. But if they weren't I wouldn't watch another race this season. Bahrain is a good overtaking circuit.

It's between a rock and a hard place.. the tyres were already too durable, and they still couldn't try a move. Did one of the top 8 ever have to go defensive once all race? If they make the tyres softer and less durable it'll be even harder to overtake.

Even in 2006, the best season for overtakes in recent history there are circuits like Silverstone and Hungary that are hard to overtake. The good thing was other circuits like Bahrain, Malaysia, Turkey etc allow overtakes. Now those circuits don't even allow overtakes.

Sorry for being a downer but I can't believe I waited 4 or 5 months for that. F1 is like Homer Simpson. A human evolving backwards into an ape.

well said jono. couldn't have said it better myself.

It is a little critical!

---

Quote:

DownUnderThunder
RedWebber07 why on earth would RBR "sabotage" Webber to make him look bad???? I'm a Webber fan too, but I try to keep a level head about it!!

If you're a long time reader, I suggest you READ my post a few posts below the post in question, specifically the line 'j/k with the above comment btw'

It was a joke champ.

---

________________________
Mark Webber - WINNER 2009 German Grand Prix!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2010 11:14 by RedWebber07.

Other then caring about the teams or drivers you like doing well or doing bad, what else is there? There is something very wrong with the entire structure of F1. You can criticise the Americans for alot of things, but at least they understand the importance of entertainment.

They were the first to conduct motor races purely for the entertainment of spectators and every type of motor racing they hold dear is an entertainment business first and foremost....but that's not what F1 is. Even so, I think the FIA and FOTA need to find a happy median.

---

...on Earth, as it is in Queensland

Life's hard as a Webber supporter!

Life's hard as an F1 supporter at the moment. If Vettel and Webber crash in turn 1 of a race, is it really worth watching the next 2 hours?

nope

i would take issue with the comment re 'americans' and 'entertainment'. i guess that it all falls where you believe that what you are seeing is entertaining and what is sugar coated ,self indulgent, stars and stripey nationalistic pap.

the problem with the american take on entertainment is that it has permeated other societies. i even saw on australian TV the other day a bunch of dorks with their hands over their left nipples during the anthem!!!! i mean really?

the entertainment should be on the track by way of all out unencumbered real racing free of intervention by R&R restrictions that stifle engineering excellence. sorry for the rant but if what i witnessed on sunday night is in any way indicative of where this season is headed then all i can say is GIGO.

Quote:

the entertainment should be on the track by way of all out unencumbered real racing

You will never get all out racing while ever there is a silly '8 engine limit rule' in place.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----

Quote:

K1
i even saw on australian TV the other day a bunch of dorks with their hands over their left nipples during the anthem!!!! i mean really?

Australians have been doing that for a long time. Lots of the old diggers put their hands over their Hearts (not left nipple). It is not something that was picked up from american entertainment. It is possible it came into our culture from the second world war.

Having said that, americans do have a low entertainment threshold. (look at their version of the footy )

Quote:

Whitey*~@

Quote:

the entertainment should be on the track by way of all out unencumbered real racing

You will never get all out racing while ever there is a silly '8 engine limit rule' in place.

You need to let go of this point Whitey, if the drivers think they can overtake they'll up the revs, at other times they'll put them down to their race spec revs, it's been this way for yonks. The fact is the driver is always going flat out in this case. The problem we had on the weekend was that they were toddling around to save the tyres, knowing there was no point closing in on the guy in front because you can't pass and it would just wreck your tyres.

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

I think they should of kept the start race as Melbourne. Bahrain turned out to be a spectacular flop. Those track changes made an already difficult passing circuit almost impossible.

Roll on Melbourne! See if we can put on a better show than those oil royals.

Quote:

it's been this way for yonks

Has it? I guess that depends on how long you call yonks?

---

----Webber versus Alonso----



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2010 09:31 by Whitey*~@.

Quote:

Whitey*~@

Quote:

it's been this way for yonks

Has it? I guess that depends on how long you call yonks?

I dunno? 20+ years?

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

I dunno? 20+ years?

Fair enough, but i really did not think these engine limit rules had been in for this long.

I am really talking about the current rule of only 8 per season, are you saying it has only been 8 per season for 20 years?

Maybe it has been limited for 20 years but i thought they were allowed more than 8 engines before any penalties?

The ideal situation would be 1 engine per race, i don't mind there being a limit but my big gripe is that 8 is not enough.

I think you are tricking me a bit Loud with your 20+ years comment, i am sure they were allowed at least 1 engine per race less than 6 or 7 years ago?

---

----Webber versus Alonso----



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2010 10:30 by Whitey*~@.

I think engine restrictions have been in place less than 5 years at a guess...

Before that you could change them every practice session.

Go on Loud, prove me wrong.

---

I agree Duffer i think Loud is trying to play with me saying they have been in for yonks, maybe there have been restrictions for yonks, but not like it is now with only 8 engines....8 engines for the season is a lot different to 1 engine per race weekend Loud.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----

I didn't say that, I just said they turn down the engines in the race to make them last, be it for a GP distance, a whole weekend or now 1200kms. Unless they're overheating like the Ferrari which obviously had a problem I can't see how this effects the racing.

---

http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

Well if it was one engine per race, there is a good chance Red Bull, Williams, Force India, STR, etc. would not be in F1.

Be careful what you wish for.

Quote:

I didn't say that, I just said they turn down the engines in the race to make them last, be it for a GP distance, a whole weekend or now 1200kms. Unless they're overheating like the Ferrari which obviously had a problem I can't see how this effects the racing.

Loud Basically what i do not like is for example if in a race there is around 9 or 10 laps to go and car A is leading car B by 3 seconds and car B has a chance to catch and over take car A but he doesn't because he is saving his engine?

I just think less of that would happen if the cars were allowed 1 engine per race and i think it would promote more hard racing and a better spectacle.

---

----Webber versus Alonso----



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2010 13:42 by Whitey*~@.

Quote:

Whitey*~@
Loud Basically what i do not like is for example if in a race there is around 9 or 10 laps to go and car A is leading car B by 3 seconds and car B has a chance to catch and over take car A but he doesn't because he is saving his engine?

But of course, Car A wouldn't be saving his engine either... he is out the front for a reason, he was quick.

ARRRGH, And i thought it was the tyres they were saving??? (how did i get pulled into that argument?)

Thats a fair point about the engines being saved, although I don't agree with 1 per race.

I think once they have stuck to this 8 engines per season for long enough, you might find that the engines will become reliable to the point that they can be run full throttle for each of the 4-5 races.

I think it's just a shame that they limited the number of engines MORE than last year (which were already limited). I am guessing that was entirely for the benefit of the new teams, so that the cost of entry was very low.

It's a shame that the racing is compromised by these new teams. Personally, I think last years limit was fine, and it was silly to change.

Well technically they didn't limit the number of engines anymore then last year they just increased the number of races. I think the original plan was to decrease the number of engines allowed but they didn't because of the new teams. Cosworth said while we can reach the performamce targets for this year they would not be able to reach the reliability targets with the further reduced number of engines, so the FIA shelved that plan.

Found this article after I posted.
Cosworth

Cosworth has also been assured that it will not be further compromised by limiting itself to just five engines per car per season, as had been pushed for by some FOTA teams. The decision comes after Cosworth informed the manufacturers and the FIA that it would not be able to retune its engine as well as dramatically extend its engine life in the time left available before the start of next season.

"Our position is that we are completely happy with this concept of reducing the revs to 18,000rpm but we only have a finite amount of time before we have to deliver engines," explained Routsis. "There is not enough time for us to do a retune and extend the life of the engines. So we need to stay with the agreed number of eight engines."

So it was a FOTA initiative not the FIA

With Bahrain drivers were definately not taking it easy on engines to save them, they were taking it easy to save tyres... because if the tyres went off that would be the end of the race for them unless all cars tyres went off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/03/2010 03:32 by hmmm_ok.

Wow. Didn't realize that Hmmm.

Ta.

Guys

you need to realise something about these engine rules. They bring in an engine limit to contain costs, as yes, its expensive to use one engine each weekend.

What these dickhead rule makers dont understand is that the limits actually cost the teams more. Do you realise the extra development that got put into the engines when this rule was tabled. Pistons, rings, rods cranks and nearly everything was put back on the drawing board to extract the last ounce out of it.

So yes, now we dont spend as much each year on the engines, but we spent 5 million in development so the engine would last this long.

I see it everyday at work, a rule change comes out, our engineers then spend the next 6 months changing and re designing things to make up for the change.

What about econimies of scale, you know it costs the some to produce 100 crankshafts as it does to produce 25. The majority of costs is in design and programming, once all that is done its just bolt in a billet and push the go button

Well, the rule was there to help the non-manufacturer teams too, to make it cheaper to buy an engine.

You make it sound like they (Ferrari, Merc, BMW, Yoda) weren't spending $100m a year on their engines, when I believe they were.

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http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

I would be better to stabilize the rules more towards engines number of races, rather than season.

I really hope they extend next year to allow 9 engines, since the number of races seems likely to move to 20.

With Cosworth, engine with transmission are around 8mil per season for each team, so say around 450k each without tranny.

Surely the teams can try to get an extra 450 thousand from sponsors, when the sponsors will be getting more air time and wider market due to a longer and more diverse calendar?

The engine issue is an interesting one. I was pleased to hear that Seb's problem did not result in a dead engine. The unit will be available for another race. I am not sure if that applies to Ferrari, they are in engine deficit I think. It will hurt them later in the season.

I wonder if anyone has negotiated a sponsorship based on races rather than a fixed amount. $x's per race for 3 years for example, so that an extra race would be covered.

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Williams and proud of it.

I would hope so. It would be silly for marketing to not renegotiate based on marketing availability. You could even possibly get local sponsorship for some events that had not been in original sponsorship deals. India would be one I imagine that might pull a considerable amount for one race.