f1
Latest News:
Welcome to the Racing Bulls Message board. Feel free to talk about the Red Bull Racing Formula One Campaign and anything else related to F1.........

My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
blight (IP Logged)
31 May, 2012 09:38
This has got to be the easiest and stupidest thing I've ever seen, and I don't know why the f1 analysts don't realise where this comes from.

IT THE GAMBLING.

People are @#$%& off that after a few years of almost assured winners to pick, where you would always pick one of the favorites, is now not the case at ALL. It's MUCH harder to pick a winner.

Honestly, it's idiotic to think that the racing is worse, it's better?????

The only problem is that the poor @#$%& are not getting monies worth for the main players, because there odds are way way way too low for this season.

On the up side, the odds for the other players are much higher than they should be smiling smiley

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
blight (IP Logged)
31 May, 2012 09:40
Oh, anyone got any tips for gamblers btw?

I'm thinking that for the team, get the track temps, ambient, and humidity, high speed/low speed corner ratio, and straight distance. Match that to the patterns we have seen relative to the performance.

For the specic driver, as always, go on history of past races, judge the confidence level/mental state you think they might be in, and then just look at the fp sessions to see how the setup is going.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
LoudHoward (IP Logged)
31 May, 2012 10:33
I'd say a small minority of those complaining about the lottery are gambling on F1.

For me, I don't have a particular problem with the field being close, and generating what we've seen. The issue I have is that it's not because Williams, or Sauber or Lotus have done a good job to make the racing so close. The field has been arbitrarily and artificially brought together by the FIA and that sucks. Multiple rule changes, all pretty much aimed at us, taking away tech. Only Merc have raised their game IMO.

We're just trudging along to a spec series, and the artificially boosted racing of KERS, DRS and Egg tyres will tide us over I suppose, but it's not a medium, let alone long term solution. It's better than what we had in 2008, but so is having my balls slammed in a door, so that doesn't mean much. I just hope for the sake of the sport it comes to solutions better than what we have now for our problem, pandering to the mouth breathers for short term gains might bring in some quick fans, but you need depth and a long term fix or else we'll start sliding like NASCAR has.

I'm glad Michael had the balls to come out and say what he did against the Pirellis, I don't think seeing the drivers plod around at 90% pace all the time is going to be masked by DRS for many years.

That said, I'm not an expert, the only betting I've done on F1 is (no @#$%& Whitey) betting on Mark losing spots on the first lap, each time I've done it he's pulled through and made me some money.



http://www.users.on.net/~loud_howard/webber/sigs/webbersiglatest4.jpg
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
K1 (IP Logged)
31 May, 2012 11:05
yes, loud i too share almost identical opinions.a good summary. the new specs/rules and regs for 2014 are, at this early stage even more draconian by way of control, even gearbox ratios, with the exception of the final drive, are set to be specified for the entire season. of course there will be changes but this is what we can look forward to.

[they] always talk of F1 being the pinnacle of motorsport technology. what a load of old garbanzos. engine development has been frozen for aeons. F1 was in the past a development series, albeit with some basic specifications where teams could showcase some of the most exciting developments but it is now a pale shadow of that.

i like to make the comparison with yacht racing as i raced yachts for many years. the americas cup was a development series and it was quite spectacular. today it is a spec series and if you think that monaco was boring try watching an americas cup in its entirety.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
F1mans (IP Logged)
31 May, 2012 12:12
Nice points loud n k
Could it be possible that if trend continues
That possibly the drivers who don't make the so called " pinnacle" that in finding drives in other categories may be more rewarding and feel like their at the max instead of the tyre managing in lieu of true out and out hammering it?

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
Hall_Green_Wolf (IP Logged)
31 May, 2012 15:55
Not for as long as the likes of lewis are getting 100 million pound contracts.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
blight (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 02:13
Seems like there are quite a few people that don't like this year for other reasons then. Interesting.

I would of thought that the only way to have changing playing field was to add rules. For me it's pretty good, as we can see that even though RB have not innovated, they are still strong from old work they did with front wings and sidepods. We just lost so much from the stuff we had last year.

I think the teams that have shown some strength are those that took the RB5 approach this year, like the williams, the merc, renault/lotus. And with the restrictions on some areas, it's only been those teams that have taken a fresh approach. Ferrari went particularly extreme, but I think they are beginning to get on top of the new suspension and how to make the tires work with it now. Aero is not too shabby.

In the end, it's good because we would of had a rut, with RB just fine tuning the existing car, and other being unable to match them.

I think by the end of the year, things will go back to normal as we see more of the strong teams quickly begin to handle the new tires.

Running at 90% for the race? LH, to me, I can't notice it, it's more like 97% according to lap times. And really, it's not like they cannot go faster, they just have to do it more strategically.

This isn't new either, it was the same in prior years of F1, its just that the bridgstones had become so strong and we were seeing races where they could of ran the whole race on one set without a problem. Which means that the tires became an area where there was very little development/performance benefit.

Now, tires are a differential, and it's not quite as aero focused, which is a great thing IMH. I'd like to know why tires being brought to a state where the teams have to re-learn and design the car for them to be bad?

At the end of the day, you don't seem to have a problem with the racing, which i think most people don't, i mean, how good was that Spain race, incredible.

The excuse that it's artificial is just strange to me, i'd need you to explain why you think it's any more artificial than any tire change in the past, or any regulation change in the past, they are all 'artificial' ways of trying to make the racing more interesting and they have been doing it for years. They just got it very very right this time.

Saying it is artificial is basically saying that the teams that won didn't deserve it, and wow, I think that is almost the opposite to what I believe about this season.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
LoudHoward (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 03:00
97% on lap time perhaps, but they're still full throttle down the straights, they're just cruising through the corners.

Seeing Perez doing a low 17 while Mark is doing 20s because he doesn't want to hurt his tyres just doesn't fascinate me that much. We're lucky it rained because I can say Mark really earned it, if not it would've been a really plod race.

Quote:
Now, Pirelli are a differential, and it's not quite as team focused

FTFY.

The problem with the tyres is that they're dominating the show, stopping people from pushing and they're not something that the teams have command over. I'd rather not think about tyres at all to be honest, there's no sporting competition in the development of these tyres. The teams/cars mean less, the drivers aren't pushing for much of the races, and something that isn't developed in competition now dominates.

The Spain race was reasonably poo by the way, hey Fernando you're nice and quick oh no you got in the dirty air your tyres are now stuffed after 2 laps. Tops.

As for the RB5 approach, no, 2009 was a new set of rules that were somewhat open and the teams who did well were the ones that put the thought and time into their cars. This year, RBR, McLaren and Ferrari have been brought back to the field, not the field gaining on them. The FIA specifically went after like three areas that the top teams excelled at and banned them. It's not like 2008 at all where there was a problem, nothing to do with any particular team, that they were trying to solve.

I'm not opposed to rule set changes that require a 'reset', but just banning what makes the fast cars fast and then going on about how awesomely close is does irritate me somewhat.



http://www.users.on.net/~loud_howard/webber/sigs/webbersiglatest4.jpg
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
f1man (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 03:39
yes, and we have to take what the drivers say as correct. Even if the races look "fast" if all drivers are saying they are not on it, then i ask why i even interested if they all go go to this unforeseen limit?, and the drivers who do like perez last race arent really vying for a podium so its all pointless stats really.



Mark WEBBER 9smiling smiley hit wonder :-)

Should have been 12 wins except vettel stuffed up
Japan 2007- vettel runs into back of webber during SC ...WTF
Turkey 2010- vettel decides to drive into webber
Malaysia 2013- vettel decides he is just too awesome for team rules
I am a proud Mark Webber Fan
I am also proud that we won the war
I am also a Carlton supporter
I think, therfore i am!

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
sir bob (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 08:05
My objection with this season is that I tune in to watch a contest, both between the teams and the drivers. I want to see results determined by skill and achievement. The occasional influence of luck adds to the interest.

However this year the influence of luck seems to be dominating. The skill and achievement that makes a great contest is being overshadowed by a lottery. I don't like this.

I've got no problem with the rule changes designed to bring the field closer together. This has been happening for as long as I've watched F1.

I hate DRS with a passion. It's gimmicky and it's not proper racing. I would trade 100 DRS overtakes for 1 proper racing overtake. You don't need constant overtakes to make a race interesting!

I don't like the tyres either. I would rather tyres that allow a driver to race balls out from the back of the field to the front than tyres that force the field to drive at 90% if they want a decent result... Occasionally you'd get a race where the tyres don't last and need to be managed. These races are exciting and they're exciting because they don't happen all the time.

Every race being hyperactive and unpredictable is not exciting. It is tiresome. It is exciting when it happens only occasionally. In my opinion the best season in recent times was 2010. There was no gimmicky DRS. There were no flakey tyres. Just great racing!

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
K1 (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 08:49
nicki lauda made a few comments for which he has been derided but he has valid points. laura may well be from a different generation but he still knows more about F1 than most.

all the previous comments by LH et al i fully support and i have been constant in saying so. i want to see hamilton,webber, alonso, button etc etc all going for it wheel to wheel.

at the present moment that is not happening and it won't so long as we have these tyres which are dominating any real development. what is the point of developing the car if the tyres are going to limit any new performance gains? kimi started monaco on a set of scrubbed supersofts and they lasted six laps.

DRS is an epic fail in my book and it should never have seen the light of day. the sooner these issues are resolved the better but somehow i don't see that happening.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
growler (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 13:33
Alonso joins the growing ranks of those not impressed:-

[www.gpupdate.net]?

So thats (at least) Michael Schumacher, Mark Webber, Martin Brundle, Fernando Alonso, Dietrich Mateschitz, Jenson Button, and Niki Lauda all speaking out publicly against the tyre lottery.



Admin@racingbulls.net
www.racingbulls.net
http://www.users.on.net/~washing/misc/RBR/growler-sig.gif

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
K1 (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 22:18
i don't recall where i posted and on which thread but during the barcelona race a close friend who attends almost all GP's and frequents the paddock called me on the saturday night from a barca restaurant to chat.

the restaurant was full of F1 people, Tv personnel [coulthard,jordan and co.] and journalists.the entire evening was taken up with tyre discussion and some 'spirited' debate about same. what has been said publicly does not actually reflect what is said privately.

there are agendas within agendas and the entire episode would be a joke if it wasn't such a serious matter. a lot of teams simply do not have the wherewithal to redesign/redevelop their cars almost from track to track. change in F1 does not come cheap.

one aspect is that sponsors who pump ginormous amounts into'their' team are saying, quite simply, WTF is this all about? a very good question.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
Hall_Green_Wolf (IP Logged)
01 June, 2012 22:30
My uncles sisters brothers best mate school mates dog told me the same thing.

If you dont like it switch off, thats yr logic squire practise what you preach eh.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
K1 (IP Logged)
02 June, 2012 03:14
how predictable.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
blight (IP Logged)
04 June, 2012 14:35
I'm not so convinced about the comments made in the media yet.

I have not heard a driver actually say that it WAS a lottery, just that it is easy for people to perceive that it is.

I don't expect this be an issue come the last 8 or so races.

It will blow over soon enough.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
f1man (IP Logged)
05 June, 2012 00:07
blow over yes, but still racing at only 94 percent

anywho ...



Mark WEBBER 9smiling smiley hit wonder :-)

Should have been 12 wins except vettel stuffed up
Japan 2007- vettel runs into back of webber during SC ...WTF
Turkey 2010- vettel decides to drive into webber
Malaysia 2013- vettel decides he is just too awesome for team rules
I am a proud Mark Webber Fan
I am also proud that we won the war
I am also a Carlton supporter
I think, therfore i am!

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
scoob010 (IP Logged)
05 June, 2012 01:47
Not sure I would want to go back to one team dominating the championship. Two teams dominating for that matter. I can understand that those spending the most expect a return for their investment and the drivers that have earned top drives expecting to compete for race wins. I'm not sympathetic I have to say. 3-5% looks like nothing on T.V. Not being able to push because of tyres and getting caught in slower traffic with fresher tyres is, to me, a lesser evil than watching a couple of cars fly off into the distance, pit, come out in front still and finish that way. Of course it @#$%&$ the drivers but who really cares? DM can't buy this years title, who cares? Looking after the car and tyres has been a part of Motorsport a lot longer than flat out driving the whole race. Keep in mind they are allowed to push as hard as they like.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
F1mania (IP Logged)
05 June, 2012 09:43
Maybe it's the reason they have less on board stuff
Cause from the cockpit it's visually noticeable that there all " not on it "

It's a bit like Olympic walkers
As opposed to running

It's pathetic to watch someone walking fast
I feel the body / car should be taken to the max

If we don't get that , then I feel robbed

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
willber (IP Logged)
05 June, 2012 12:57
Yeah, lets go back to the ferrari jugganaut streaming off into the distance and everyone else racing for second....not! (ie whoever has the most coin wins)
We complained back then, now we complain that its anyones ballgame.
Pack of whingers i say. Tyre management has been part of racing since forever.
We complained the last couple of seasons that the tyres were too resilient.
Next we'll complain about gearboxes and engines having to last too long...and not be pushing 100% or was that covered a couple of years ago????
Appears we cant win!

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
f1man (IP Logged)
06 June, 2012 01:34
well actually, i miss cars with smoke billowing out, i miss refueling why you ask wilber

well because it gave the minows a chance to pick up points , with no refuelling, no engine blows etc how do they pick up points , its not all about the reds streaming off into distance



Mark WEBBER 9smiling smiley hit wonder :-)

Should have been 12 wins except vettel stuffed up
Japan 2007- vettel runs into back of webber during SC ...WTF
Turkey 2010- vettel decides to drive into webber
Malaysia 2013- vettel decides he is just too awesome for team rules
I am a proud Mark Webber Fan
I am also proud that we won the war
I am also a Carlton supporter
I think, therfore i am!

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
LoudHoward (IP Logged)
06 June, 2012 02:06
You don't like the series heading in the direction of a spec series dominated by tyres developed out of competition? THEREFORE YOU LIKE FERRARI DOMINATION?! Logical.



http://www.users.on.net/~loud_howard/webber/sigs/webbersiglatest4.jpg
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
blight (IP Logged)
06 June, 2012 04:12
I must admit that i'm feeling quite proud to be able to come back onto the forums and get LH to start yelling in my first topic.

Excellent.

Blight 1
Social Peace 0

 
Re: My take on the 'fans' not liking the 'lottery' of 2012 F1
f1man (IP Logged)
06 June, 2012 04:12
who is that being referred to loudy?



Mark WEBBER 9smiling smiley hit wonder :-)

Should have been 12 wins except vettel stuffed up
Japan 2007- vettel runs into back of webber during SC ...WTF
Turkey 2010- vettel decides to drive into webber
Malaysia 2013- vettel decides he is just too awesome for team rules
I am a proud Mark Webber Fan
I am also proud that we won the war
I am also a Carlton supporter
I think, therfore i am!


Your Name: 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
CAPTCHA
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?