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12 Mar, 2012 17:14 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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2012 top teams and drivers
Hey guys. We are now close to 2012 Melbourne start, i thought i like to know your views about teams and teammatewars for 2012??

Here is what i think.

1. RB-Vettel
2. Macca-Button
3. Merc- Nico
4. Ferrari-Alonso
5. Lotus-Kimi

What do you think?



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 25/11/2012 21:38 by Timba7.

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13 Mar, 2012 16:32 Report
nicholasf2012 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
1.merc-schumi
2.macca-button
3.redbull-vettel
4.lotus-rakonen
5.ferrari-massa
im ever the optomist. but i believe merc have got a great car, that will challenge for the win at every race.and i also think schumi will find his mojo,but it wont be easy for him cos nicco is going to push him very hard.
i think macca as a good car,and button will have the edge over hamilton.
vettel will once again dominate webber.the team wouldnt have it anyother way.im hopeing the change to blown defuser as hurt them a little and they have fellen slighty behind,i think the update package arriveing late at testing was a reaction to the other teams.
raikonen looks strong in the lotus and i can see him challenging but im not convinced.
and massa i think will dig deep and get the upperhand of alonso. if the ferrari is as bad as it looks alonso wont be a happy chappy.
and if any of that comes true il eat my hat

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13 Mar, 2012 19:19 Report
Timba (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
@nicholas

Great views.

About Massa i am not sure, i mean his status rather than his speed.

Raikkonen probably has some deal with team owner Lopez, so his position i believe is secured. Also they took some power off from Boullier, if i am correct now there is 3 teamleaders, so the same problem he had with Domenicali might not happen again. About Lotus package, well i am not sure. Its interesting to see.

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13 Mar, 2012 20:58 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I hate getting into these shot in the dark projections, but I'm expecting RB and Vettel will still field the most competitive Package. Hamilton and Button will go at each other with no clear cut winner. Their fate will be determined by the luck and draw of the season's circumstances, i.e. who screws up the least and who gets a few breaks.
Ferrari and Mercedes may provide some pretty competitive moments if the Silver Arrow's have legs. The consistency of Michael and Nico might just provide stiff resistance to the Prancing Horses.
The air between Force India, Renault, could be very thin.
Toro Rosso, Sauber, and Williams will also all be each other's nemesis.

Best Drivers: there are six maybe seven equals only being separated by car performance. Vettel-Alonso-Kimi-Lewis-Button-Michael-and Nico. IMO. There are 2 or 3 more working their way forward.

P.S. 43 years of age may play into it, but I will reserve final judgement until the final judgement at season's end.

sessions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/03/2012 21:06 by sessions.

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13 Mar, 2012 21:36 Report
K1 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
very interesting list of drivers sessions. i take it that you don't rate webber amongst the top seven?

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14 Mar, 2012 01:38 Report
TheContrarian (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Well...I am always comfortable taking a complete shot in the dark...lol.

Testing tells us very little, but I think body language and comments give us a little more insight.

Right now, the team I am most worried about is Macca. I think all the teams should be worried about that car and their two drivers, quite possibly the strongest duo on the grid. If Lewis is as focused as he says he is, look out. Button will bring it all day long as well. So...

I am going in this order:

1. Macca - Button (1-2 finish for their drivers at the end).
2. RB - Vettel (Webber announces retirement).
3. Macca - Nico (Schumi is on it, but edged out by Nico in end).
4. Ferrari - Alonso (car is just not there until too late)
5. FI - The Hulk
6. Williams - Senna (my dark horse team).
7. Lotus - Kimi (team will fade, sorry Kimi)
8. Does it matter at this point? LOL. TR - Ricciardo.
9. Sauber - Perez..the next partner to Alonso at Ferrari.


I like Williams to suprise, and The Hulk to impress. Back to Williams, they will find they really miss Rubens...while he is off challenging for a title in Indy Car.

OK...I will put my prognosticator hat back on the shelf and lets see how things play out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2012 01:42 by TheContrarian.

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14 Mar, 2012 09:02 Report
timpa (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
i change lotus to 4th over ferrari coz they made sponsor deal with microsoft. Well the reliability might suck. Ctr alt del... Great views guys

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14 Mar, 2012 10:01 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Quote:
timpa
i change lotus to 4th over ferrari coz they made sponsor deal with microsoft. Well the reliability might suck. Ctr alt del... Great views guys

and to hide their innovations I guess they're gonna use a blue screen lol.... bsod... Imagine Kimi downloading updates on the grid at the start, wait! I have to restart!

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14 Mar, 2012 19:44 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
... format c:



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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15 Mar, 2012 00:56 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
K1,

Webber is an accomplished F1 driver by all means, somewhere in the latter half of the top ten and ahead of Massa. Since being with Red Bull I feel he should be delivering a bit more.

sessions

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15 Mar, 2012 02:35 Report
K1 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
yes sessions, some people do feel as though webber should have delivered more, especially mark webber. interestingly webber has consistently outscored hamilton over the past three years and during that period hamilton has won eight races and webber has won seven!!!! not too shabby.


at the end of the season it is the points on the board that count.

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15 Mar, 2012 06:08 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
K1

True it's not shabby at all. I guess when Vettel gets so much press and wins back to back world driving titles it makes Webber's performances pale. If Alonso, Button, Kimi or Hamilton were to drive the other Bull would they shine more ? In my mind I think they might. Schumacher (today) would be questionable as would Nico, but you never really know until given a car like the Bulls field.
If I were running the team I'd see no reason to replace Mark currently.
Picking an exact pecking order of drivers is almost impossible. Each has his pros and cons.

sessions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2012 06:13 by sessions.

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15 Mar, 2012 06:57 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I beg to differ regarding Schumacher and Nico in a RedBull, Nico has incredible qualifying speed and with a car like the RB he would be long gone at the start and as for Schumacher his race pace is fantastic given they both had inferior cars in comparison to the top 3. If MGP manages to cook a title contender I'm sure our drivers will show the current line up how to win a race. Nico more than deserves it and Michael desperately needs it.

Fingers crossed, I'm having sky installed on Saturday! If the tech tells me there's issues I'm gonna be forced to push his ladder down until he finishes the job hehehe....

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15 Mar, 2012 10:38 Report
K1 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
so many times i have heard that story...that others could get better results if they were in the other red bull car. why? i think that webber can hold his own with any of them. yes he has not won a title but there are very many reasons for that that we don't need to go into here.

button was asked who was the toughest competitor on the track and he named webber.

anyway, they are all good and any one of them, on the day, can win races. the actual complexity of variables means that some shine and others don't but that doesn't mean that they, the winners, are unique. they just happen to have all pieces come together at the right time.

i somehow don't buy the rosberg game though. so many times he has had opportunities and he messes up. sometimes i think that he emulates trulli and has a quiet snooze in the middle of the race. that combined with too easy acquiescence at times. he has never struck me as a 'cojones out' racer like his father was. maybe this year he will do better, who knows?

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15 Mar, 2012 10:52 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Webber is great driver. RB is maximising everything, and clearly they have opted Vettel. And rightly so with 2 WDC back to back.



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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15 Mar, 2012 11:50 Report
K1 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
in 2009 marko stated that the teams future lay with vettel and that the team and the car were being built around him and webber would have to 'go whistle dixie' or the austrian substitute for same. that is a harsh dictate to stand up to and webber did just that.

we all know that vettel is good, he's fast and very competitive but a full season without a max advantage may just prove if he really has the 'racer' genes. i am not fully convinced as yet.

as i said earlier any one of the top ten, on the day, could win races. maybe this year we will see results spread across a variety of drivers and that would be great.

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15 Mar, 2012 18:22 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
(Sm42)

sessions

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19 Mar, 2012 09:15 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
ok, so after Melbourne do the math

teams:
1 McLaren-Mercedes 40
2 Red Bull Racing-Renault 30
3 Sauber-Ferrari 12
4 Ferrari 10
5 Lotus-Renault 6
6 STR-Ferrari 2
7 Force India-Mercedes 1
8 Mercedes 0
9 Williams-Renault 0
10 Marussia-Cosworth 0
11 Caterham-Renault 0
12 HRT-Cosworth 0

drivers:
1 Jenson Button British McLaren-Mercedes 25
2 Sebastian Vettel German Red Bull Racing-Renault 18
3 Lewis Hamilton British McLaren-Mercedes 15
4 Mark Webber Australian Red Bull Racing-Renault 12
5 Fernando Alonso Spanish Ferrari 10
6 Kamui Kobayashi Japanese Sauber-Ferrari 8
7 Kimi Räikkönen Finnish Lotus-Renault 6
8 Sergio Perez Mexican Sauber-Ferrari 4
9 Daniel Ricciardo Australian STR-Ferrari 2
10 Paul di Resta British Force India-Mercedes 1

So basically its:

Macca-Button
RB-Vettel
Sauber-Koba
Ferrari-Alonso
Lotus-Kimi
STR-ricciardo
and the rest... OMG we are not in there

What is the real power balance:


Macca and RB from different planet than rest. I think that Lotus Ferrari and Merc are fighting 3 rd. Williams also challenging for the 6-8 places, Maldonado was overdriving. If that is possible. Sauber is higher than their real pace, so they will probably fade while other teams take their real places.

Just guessing here...

What do you think??



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 19/03/2012 10:33 by Timba7.

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26 Mar, 2012 15:35 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
...updated after Malaysia 2nd race of the season.

Pos Team Points
1 McLaren-Mercedes 55
2 Red Bull Racing-Renault 42
3 Ferrari 35
4 Sauber-Ferrari 30
5 Lotus-Renault 16
6 Force India-Mercedes 9
7 Williams-Renault 8
8 STR-Ferrari 6
9 Mercedes 1
10 Marussia-Cosworth 0
11 Caterham-Renault 0
12 HRT-Cosworth 0

Pos Driver Nationality Team Points
1 Fernando Alonso Spanish Ferrari 35
2 Lewis Hamilton British McLaren-Mercedes 30
3 Jenson Button British McLaren-Mercedes 25
4 Mark Webber Australian Red Bull Racing-Renault 24
5 Sergio Perez Mexican Sauber-Ferrari 22
6 Sebastian Vettel German Red Bull Racing-Renault 18
7 Kimi Räikkönen Finnish Lotus-Renault 16
8 Bruno Senna Brazilian Williams-Renault 8
9 Kamui Kobayashi Japanese Sauber-Ferrari 8
10 Paul di Resta British Force India-Mercedes 7
11 Jean-Eric Vergne French STR-Ferrari 4
12 Daniel Ricciardo Australian STR-Ferrari 2
13 Nico Hulkenberg German Force India-Mercedes 2
14 Michael Schumacher German Mercedes 1
15 Nico Rosberg German Mercedes 0
16 Pastor Maldonado Venezuelan Williams-Renault 0
17 Timo Glock German Marussia-Cosworth 0
18 Charles Pic French Marussia-Cosworth 0
19 Felipe Massa Brazilian Ferrari 0
20 Vitaly Petrov Russian Caterham-Renault 0
21 Heikki Kovalainen Finnish Caterham-Renault 0
22 Pedro de la Rosa Spanish HRT-Cosworth 0
23 Narain Karthikeyan Indian HRT-Cosworth 0
24 Romain Grosjean French Lotus-Renault 0

So hard facts:

Macca-Hammi
RB-Webber
Ferrari-Alonso
Sauber-Perez
Lotus-Kimi
Fi-Paul Di Resta
Williams-Senna!!!!
STR-Vergne
Merc-Schumi

My predictions about Sauber fading didnt happen. But everyone who watched the race on sunday saw how it was lottery. some had luck.. and i believe Lotus will catch Sauber. Hopefully we can also get closer to Sauber and Lotus. Anyways if Williams and Fi and STR gets few updates then OMG!!!

I personally like to see Sennas name there in the mix. And hard facts say Schumi now leading the teammate battle by 1 point. Vergne has been fresh. Perez do i need say more. Vettel had puncture. Button accident. Alonso had all their luck x 50. Lotus is a mess. Still big points. Everything is still open in the fight for WDC and WCC... OMG!!! This season might be epic.

What do you think guys??



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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26 Mar, 2012 15:47 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
true, it's shaping up to be an epic one. All the pundits said that this year there are a lot of teams which are close to each other in terms of performance. Only McLaren seem to stand out a bit from the rest and it's their reliability the only issue that can de-throne them this year.

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26 Mar, 2012 15:59 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
@Spartan
True that, Macca is strong. Although Hammi was not par with Ferrari and Sauber. Afterall this was the first real track, after melbourne street track. So maybe Macca is not as strong as Oz made us thought.

Can we get in to mix?? I really cant say. I have some doubts over development.



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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26 Mar, 2012 16:14 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
yesterday was a one off with the rain making all a gamble. Had it been a dry track no one would have kept up with the McLaren's. Such a gamble that we even got a Sauber finishing in P2.

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26 Mar, 2012 16:37 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Point is, we were bad in all conditions and on all tyre types.

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26 Mar, 2012 16:49 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Yuup... But Herman check out the development thread. i can see light at the tunnel. Maybe just maybe.



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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1 Apr, 2012 18:22 Report
TheContrarian (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Timba, I hope so. We are just looking bad. Car is a big tire eater, and I can't help thinking it is largely down to the style and car character Schumi wants. The problem is the tires are not the old bespoke Bridgestones.

But, it is early still. I hope there is light and not a train of others passing them by...

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2 Apr, 2012 08:55 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Let's do what Ferrari did for him. Lets pay Perelli to make tyres just to suit him, lets have a few perelli techincs working in the factory with us and then we can have their input in the suspension design and we can match the tyre design to suit the car how he wants it and @#$%& everyone else...

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2 Apr, 2012 10:02 Report
Timba (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
@Herman

We should have tried. Macca has their own ex. Pirelli engineer on board? I am not sure if we do??

Lotus has given 2011 car to testing ground for Pirelli, so they have long term targets with using Pirelli. Tires are one of the biggest issues nowadays, its artificially made situation.

FIA and Pirelli probably with Bernie needs this so they can change the competition if needed. LOL, how sick is that. They used it for 2012 and before, by changing compounds more suiting for one team which they need to be on top. RB was clearly with tire change and EBD ban the biggest looser. It was too obvious who they wanted to take down.

But we are still watching, so maybe they know something we dont. Or they just use our love for the sport for making more money... But at the same time it might be the reason F1 is the biggest motorsport out there?? Or is it only house of cards waiting for everything to collapse.

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2 Apr, 2012 12:43 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Herman you fail to see the bigger picture. Who do you think tells Pirelli to design their tyres in a particular way?
Here's a clue: He's very effing old....
You want Ferrari to win? No Problem, ask uncle Bernie to request it from Pirelli.
You want to end RedBull's dominion? No Problem, uncle Bernie has a solution to everything.
It seems you are only happy to point it out when it only concerns Michael Schumacher and btw there were TWO TYRE MAKERS at that time, Michelin was there too so who were they designing their rubber for? Renault maybe?...

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2 Apr, 2012 13:07 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
@Autosport

[www.autosport.com]

Lotus, Permane talking about teams:

""I think it is McLaren and Red Bull Racing at the front, and then I think we are there. I know Mercedes were third on the grid in Malaysia, but their race pace is nothing special.

"We saw [Nico] Rosberg pit for some new inters in Malaysia when we were racing him, and I thought we were going to be in trouble there. But his pace was then the same, if not worse than ours. Mercedes will get on top of it, but at the moment their race pace isn't a threat."

----------------------

The link is good read. He talks about other teams aswell. RB, Macca, Lotus, Sauber, Ferrari etc.

Hope our issues with tires are easy to fix. We´ll see.



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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2 Apr, 2012 13:17 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I dont fail to see anything. We all knew at the time that Bernie conspired to produce a new superstar to replace one sadly killed and also to put ferrari back on top. We all know that since then he's been changing rules to promote one team over another, even to the extent of having his favourite team get rid of his favourite driver when it became montonous. You may have noticed that when I point these things out I am a conspiracy theorist. BTW, my comment was very much tongue in cheek so chill out.. (Sm115)

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2 Apr, 2012 13:31 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Yes so where is Nico in the picture? I don't mind "tongue in cheek" comments but it is monotonous too since you mention it, hence the theories thereafter...

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2 Apr, 2012 13:43 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
If Nico doesn't shape up he'll be out. But he will.

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2 Apr, 2012 13:49 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
by the way things are I think all of MGP will be out, jump to my post re MGP quitting... sad but true

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2 Apr, 2012 17:56 Report
turboturtle (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
"Lets pay Perelli to make tyres just to suit him".....and no one else on the grid, right? otherwise where was his advantage?

regards tt

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3 Apr, 2012 09:13 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Is that a question?

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3 Apr, 2012 11:00 Report
turboturtle (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
does it have a question mark at the end? you may, however, treat it as rethorical question.

regards tt

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5 Apr, 2012 09:53 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Sorry, I stuggled with it as it isn't structured as a question, more of a loose ramble with a question mark stuck on the end. Could you explain what your question actually is?

Regards

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5 Apr, 2012 11:22 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Raikkonen: For my comeback I have a good car but Schumacher did not

http://www.yallaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/d12mal396-640x392.jpg

Kimi Raikkonen says a good car has helped his return to F1

Apr.5 (GMM) Kimi Raikkonen has a simple theory as to why his return to F1 has been much smoother than that of fellow former champion Michael Schumacher.
Michael Schumacher (GER) Mercedes GP talks with Andy Shovlin (GBR) Mercedes Race Engineer. Formula One Testing, Day One, Jerez, Spain, Wednesday 17 February 2010.

http://www.yallaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dcd1017fe176-001-340x230.jpg

Michael Schumacher knew from day one during the off season test at Barcelona

After two less competitive seasons in 2010 and 2011, seven time title winner Schumacher, 43, is finally back up to speed this year.

Finn Raikkonen is more than a decade younger than his German rival and he was off the grid for only two years, not three.

But he thinks there is a simpler explanation as to why he has returned immediately to the pace, while Schumacher took more than two full seasons.

“It’s just about whether you have a good car or not. It has made life much easier for me,” said Raikkonen, who has returned to the grid, with Lotus.

“He ([chumacher] was not so lucky,” the former McLaren and Ferrari driver told Sport Bild.

“The (Lotus) car is good,” the 2007 world champion added, referring to his black and gold E20. “Whether it’s good enough for victory or not, I don’t know.

“At least we are not far away from the top.”
(L to R): Michael Schumacher (GER) Ferrari with pole sitter Kimi Raikkonen (FIN) McLaren in parc ferme. Formula One World Championship, Rd 15, Italian Grand Prix, Qualifying Day, Monza, Italy, 9 September 2006.

http://www.yallaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/d06ita970-340x230.jpg

Kimi and Michael in 2006

Raikkonen insists not much has changed in F1 since he left for a world rallying foray at the end of 2009 – not even his friendship with Sebastian Vettel.

“He has won two titles since then but it didn’t change him,” said Raikkonen.

“Sebastian is a great racing driver but he’s also a really nice guy,” he added.

As for himself, Raikkonen insists he is just the same.

“Maybe people see me as more relaxed, which I think is down to the [Lotus] team,” he said.

“It’s a different atmosphere to what I’ve experienced before.”

Source: YallaF1.com

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5 Apr, 2012 11:45 Report
Timba (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I think Kimi is right about the car. Hopefully we can get it right for this season. But MS and Nico both have lacked the tools to fight for top places 2010 and 2011, too long.

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5 Apr, 2012 16:35 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Hhhmmm he doesnt look too pleased does he? Was that the moment he realised the car was a donkey again?

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7 Apr, 2012 19:45 Report
phatjack (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Quote:
Spartan202
Raikkonen: For my comeback I have a good car but Schumacher did not
http://www.yallaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/d12mal396-640x392.jpg

Kimi Raikkonen says a good car has helped his return to F1

Apr.5 (GMM) Kimi Raikkonen has a simple theory as to why his return to F1 has been much smoother than that of fellow former champion Michael Schumacher.
Michael Schumacher (GER) Mercedes GP talks with Andy Shovlin (GBR) Mercedes Race Engineer. Formula One Testing, Day One, Jerez, Spain, Wednesday 17 February 2010.

http://www.yallaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dcd1017fe176-001-340x230.jpg

Michael Schumacher knew from day one during the off season test at Barcelona

After two less competitive seasons in 2010 and 2011, seven time title winner Schumacher, 43, is finally back up to speed this year.

Finn Raikkonen is more than a decade younger than his German rival and he was off the grid for only two years, not three.

But he thinks there is a simpler explanation as to why he has returned immediately to the pace, while Schumacher took more than two full seasons.

“It’s just about whether you have a good car or not. It has made life much easier for me,” said Raikkonen, who has returned to the grid, with Lotus.

“He ([chumacher] was not so lucky,” the former McLaren and Ferrari driver told Sport Bild.

“The (Lotus) car is good,” the 2007 world champion added, referring to his black and gold E20. “Whether it’s good enough for victory or not, I don’t know.

“At least we are not far away from the top.”
(L to R): Michael Schumacher (GER) Ferrari with pole sitter Kimi Raikkonen (FIN) McLaren in parc ferme. Formula One World Championship, Rd 15, Italian Grand Prix, Qualifying Day, Monza, Italy, 9 September 2006.

http://www.yallaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/d06ita970-340x230.jpg

Kimi and Michael in 2006

Raikkonen insists not much has changed in F1 since he left for a world rallying foray at the end of 2009 – not even his friendship with Sebastian Vettel.

“He has won two titles since then but it didn’t change him,” said Raikkonen.

“Sebastian is a great racing driver but he’s also a really nice guy,” he added.

As for himself, Raikkonen insists he is just the same.

“Maybe people see me as more relaxed, which I think is down to the [Lotus] team,” he said.

“It’s a different atmosphere to what I’ve experienced before.”

Source: YallaF1.com

Seems like Kimi is adjusting just fine unlike Simply Red. Though only 16 points behind, Simply Red has a whole season to catch up.



"If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." - Einstein



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2012 19:47 by phatjack.

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9 Apr, 2012 13:09 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
What about the teammate battle guys?

Macca, Hammi is now in the lead. Does Jenson turn the table once again? Hammi has said in the media that he hopes his luck will finally change. I rather see Jenson doing better job in the race than Hammi with bad luck.

Merc, can Nico change this battle, there is only one point between our drivers, but Schumi is looking sharp. If Merc doesnt get the tire issues fixed. Nico might be wondering when he will finally get his first win, maybe it will affect on his driving. I hope not though. Interesting, My bet is: this is Schumis year.

Lotus, Kimi has brought home points. Romains luck or bad first lap skill will someday turn to better. kimi might be in trouble with this battle, Lotus the ex. Renault team is basically French, and Romain is their own French driver who they might want to achieve greatness. I honestly dont know which will be on top at the end of the season, but for now Kimi has 16 to 0 lead.

Alonso owns Massa??

Webbo vs. Vettel. Webber is said to loose weight and doing everything in his powers to beat Vettel, it might be possible if RB is not fighting for titles. But if they are i believe they will opt Vettel. But in coming races, Webber might be stronger.

what about Sauber?

Williams?

STR??

FI??



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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14 Apr, 2012 02:55 Report
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
A lot of question marks on team mate wars after the first two races. I stick by my initial picks so far. I like Jenson for the title, but Lewis could prove me wrong yet. A grid penalty this weekend does not help his cause any, but Jenson does seem to be off a bit with the car.

Schumi is really putting the heat on Nico. I still believe Nico can prevail, but he needs to get going quickly with getting the car to his liking. I still say they really went Schumi's direction with the car which does not favor Nico. Time to see how good the kid really is.

The rest...hmmm...Nice to see Red Bull is not dominant...yet. Alonso is the best. As I said before, I still see Perez as his next teammate, but KK should have some strong results this season. The Sauber seems racy.

Williams...story of missed opportunities so far. Look much better as I thought they would, but the season is early. Will see how they can develop.

I see Lotus has turned to filing protests instead of making their car quicker...they will fade and Proton will own them next season. Sorry...I love Kimi, but cannot stand Boullier.

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14 Apr, 2012 08:31 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Well Contrarian, pretty good call. Yes the Kid did prevail and in pretty good fashion. His first pole with excellent pace.
Now the serious pressure is on to keep from moving backwards during the race. That's a hugh demand because they can't move anywhere else. At any rate good job by both Mercedes drivers.

sessions

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14 Apr, 2012 08:46 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
yep and so much for having a car "designed around MS" eh?! I guess the pole by Nico rubbishes those claims.

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14 Apr, 2012 09:25 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Too bad we cant get points from Qs. Tomorrow race is critical for team points vice. With good results we might be right up there with rest of the big boys. That would be something. Hope our team knows what the stake is and Nico and MS doesnt do anything "stupid" we need all the points out there!!!! i am praying!!!



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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14 Apr, 2012 10:32 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Heavy runs we were a second slower than McLarens so it's going to be tough. Still starting in front is a boost and we can only hope for the better. Looked like Ross & Co were holding back the potential of our double DRS till the FIA cleared it completely. If you see practice runs the best our guys did was almost 9/10's slower than their qualifying pace. Now that is what I call Sandbagging lol or they were indeed focusing or race setup...

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14 Apr, 2012 10:43 Report
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Mercedes aware race may not be easy despite Rosberg's pole position
http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1334388870.jpg
Nico Rosberg,

MercedesMercedes team boss Ross Brawn said celebrations over the squad's front row sweep for the Chinese Grand Prix would be tempered by an awareness that it had to deliver better race form on Sunday.

Although Mercedes has taken a big step forward in performance this year, with its innovative 'double DRS' system playing a role in its impressive qualifying race, it has fallen back in races after strong Saturday performances, and has only scored one point in 2012.

At Shanghai on Saturday, Nico Rosberg took a dominant pole position with a half-second cushion over the field. Team-mate Michael Schumacher was third fastest, but moves up to second on the grid thanks to Lewis Hamilton's penalty for a gearbox change.

"It was a fantastic achievement, but in the back of our mind we've got to put a race together tomorrow," Brawn told the BBC.

Brawn said Rosberg deserved huge credit for his performance and the margin of superiority. The German had been outqualified by Schumacher at 2012's first two races after holding the edge in single-lap pace for most of their time as team-mates so far.

"It was quite an exceptional lap by Nico," said Brawn. "He hasn't had a great first couple of races in that respect, and today we saw what he can do. The middle sector he did was just incredible."

The team boss hinted that both Mercedes could have gone faster still.

"We backed off once we saw that we weren't really under any threat because Lewis has got a penalty," Brawn said. "We wanted to try and save a set of tyres."

Source: Autosport.com

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14 Apr, 2012 11:00 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Nice!!!! Like u said Spartan, if they were practising race setups... then OMG!!! We will lap other cars, few times. LOL



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16 Apr, 2012 09:15 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
ok, so after our dominant victory!!!

Pos Team Points
1 McLaren-Mercedes 88
2 Red Bull Racing-Renault 64
3 Ferrari 37
4 Sauber-Ferrari 31
5 Mercedes 26
6 Lotus-Renault 24
7 Williams-Renault 18
8 Force India-Mercedes 9
9 STR-Ferrari 6
10 Marussia-Cosworth 0
11 Caterham-Renault 0
12 HRT-Cosworth 0

Pos Driver Nationality Team Points
1 Lewis Hamilton British McLaren-Mercedes 45
2 Jenson Button British McLaren-Mercedes 43
3 Fernando Alonso Spanish Ferrari 37
4 Mark Webber Australian Red Bull Racing-Renault 36
5 Sebastian Vettel German Red Bull Racing-Renault 28
6 Nico Rosberg German Mercedes 25
7 Sergio Perez Mexican Sauber-Ferrari 22
8 Kimi Räikkönen Finnish Lotus-Renault 16
9 Bruno Senna Brazilian Williams-Renault 14
10 Kamui Kobayashi Japanese Sauber-Ferrari 9
11 Romain Grosjean French Lotus-Renault 8
12 Paul di Resta British Force India-Mercedes 7
13 Jean-Eric Vergne French STR-Ferrari 4
14 Pastor Maldonado Venezuelan Williams-Renault 4
15 Daniel Ricciardo Australian STR-Ferrari 2
16 Nico Hulkenberg German Force India-Mercedes 2
17 Michael Schumacher German Mercedes 1
18 Felipe Massa Brazilian Ferrari 0
19 Timo Glock German Marussia-Cosworth 0
20 Charles Pic French Marussia-Cosworth 0
21 Vitaly Petrov Russian Caterham-Renault 0
22 Heikki Kovalainen Finnish Caterham-Renault 0
23 Pedro de la Rosa Spanish HRT-Cosworth 0
24 Narain Karthikeyan Indian HRT-Cosworth 0


So hard facts:

Macca-Hammi
RB-Webbo
Ferrari-Alonso
Sauber-Perez
Merc-Nico!!!!!
Lotus-Kimi

Great for us. We will climp higher nodoubt. So teambattle, i believe Ferrari is the biggest looser. And we will climp to second spot.

Lotus is a mess. Sauber!!Its amazing that they are faster than Ferrari, well it might tell more about Ferraris problems.

So basically i think. WDC fight is now between Macca, RB and Merc.

-----------------------

I think Button has now upper hand over Hammi. His race pace seems to be a lot better. So Hammi must do something quick if he wants to beat Button. But the points are on Hammis side now.

Vettel is working around the car issues. Webbo is more hungry. My bet is Webbo will lead this teammate battle??

We have great guys. Nico smells the blood now. And must be hungry for more. Can MS fight back. I hope so. Last time MS lead was 1 point, now it has turned to Nicos lead with a margin. Anything can happen??

Lotus, well updates didnt work, horrible race strategy cost them with super slow pit stops many points and places. Kimi is now enjoying racing but for how long. I dont understand how bad the team is playing their hand. My bet is Grosjean will top the teammate battle. Kimi will get bored to team choking in every aspect.

Sauber?

Williams?

Ferrari? Well its pretty clear i guess.

What do you think guys, and girls??



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2012 09:20 by Timba7.

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16 Apr, 2012 10:52 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
The interesting thing for me is that Nico had quite a dominant margin over MS both in qually and the race. We saw this in 2010 and 2011, when both cars have a clear run then Nico is often faster by 5 or 6 tenths.
In China, I was concerned that MS would get a better start and get by him into the first corner, but both cars got away cleanly and Nico just drove away from the old man. Clearly all things being equal Nico can more from the car and certainly deserves number 1 status in the team.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2012 10:54 by Herman Munster.

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16 Apr, 2012 12:37 Report
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Let's see what would be further as someone likes one track someone another one. If someone shine on "odd" track whiles another not - then come back to the question who is who smiling smiley

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16 Apr, 2012 13:52 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Quote:
Herman Munster
The interesting thing for me is that Nico had quite a dominant margin over MS both in qually and the race. We saw this in 2010 and 2011, when both cars have a clear run then Nico is often faster by 5 or 6 tenths.
In China, I was concerned that MS would get a better start and get by him into the first corner, but both cars got away cleanly and Nico just drove away from the old man. Clearly all things being equal Nico can more from the car and certainly deserves number 1 status in the team.

and you decide this on what terms? That he was out qualified by Michael in the previous two races? That Michael had better race pace in the previous two races before having the misfortune of being spun around or a gearbox failiure? or maybe before a mechanic forgot to put a wheel nut on his wheel yesterday?
Dominant, not at all. He did well ONCE in qualifying and put a gap in the race but as for the rest we they're all good when no one is infront of them. Look at Vettel and what he's doing.
I know where you're heading and I won't let it spoil the fun of us MGP fans. Well done to Nico and wait for Michael's answer back

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16 Apr, 2012 15:46 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
So guys, do you rather see we fighting for WCC or WDC?? Or both.

I mean. Nico is 6th 20 points from Hammi. And as team we are 5th 62 points from Macca. But for teampoints we have 2 drivers to collect. So i think both titles are still reach. Jiihaaa....



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16 Apr, 2012 16:52 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I'm not heading anywhere.
Apart from stating the facts, I'm rejoicing in the success of Nico Rosberg and my favourite team Mercedes Benz. I confess that I'm happy that my favourite of our two drivers had such great success. Obviously you would be happier if it had been schmuncher but there we go, we cant all think alike can we?

Gooooo Nico.... Goooooo Mercedes smileys with beer

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16 Apr, 2012 17:05 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Then get your facts right, 2011 he did not dominate at all MS, actually they came a mere few points apart from each other and MS was out performing Nico in the second half. This year 2 out of 3 Michael was in front so I know what I'm saying when I say it's a sudden Go MGP cheer from your side and you know that too no need to dig deeper.
I'm glad you're happy for our team but that doesn't diminish our other driver's performance.

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16 Apr, 2012 17:27 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Quote:
Me
The interesting thing for me is that Nico had quite a dominant margin over MS both in qually and the race. We saw this in 2010 and 2011, when both cars have a clear run then Nico is often faster by 5 or 6 tenths.
In China, I was concerned that MS would get a better start and get by him into the first corner, but both cars got away cleanly and Nico just drove away from the old man. Clearly all things being equal Nico can more from the car and certainly deserves number 1 status in the team.

If you care to read what I actually wrote instead of making up your own twisted version you will see that I didnt say he dominated MS in 2011. [although he did finish ahead in points]

I actually said he had a dominant margin over MS in quallification and the race - China - which he did did he not?

I said we saw this in 2010 and 2011, I said Nico was OFTEN faster - which he was. Where in there does it say he dominated MS in 2011????????

You need to chill out and stop with your flame bait to perfectly reasonable posts, it's very unedifying.

Just enjoy our success, surely that outweighs your dissapointment that it was Nico who got the first pole and win for MGP?

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16 Apr, 2012 17:34 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Quote:
Herman Munster
Quote:
Me
The interesting thing for me is that Nico had quite a dominant margin over MS both in qually and the race. We saw this in 2010 and 2011, when both cars have a clear run then Nico is often faster by 5 or 6 tenths.
In China, I was concerned that MS would get a better start and get by him into the first corner, but both cars got away cleanly and Nico just drove away from the old man. Clearly all things being equal Nico can more from the car and certainly deserves number 1 status in the team.

If you care to read what I actually wrote instead of making up your own twisted version you will see that I didnt say he dominated MS in 2011. [although he did finish ahead in points]

I actually said he had a dominant margin over MS in quallification and the race - China - which he did did he not?

I said we saw this in 2010 and 2011, I said Nico was OFTEN faster - which he was. Where in there does it say he dominated MS in 2011????????

You need to chill out and stop with your flame bait to perfectly reasonable posts, it's very unedifying.

Just enjoy our success, surely that outweighs your dissapointment that it was Nico who got the first pole and win for MGP?

Herman you are as genuine as Judas was to Christ, a simple google search would show how sincere your posts are:

A few comments copy pasted:

Herman munster
Rochdale, UK
Sep 19, 2011
Lauda is a top guy and was a great WDC.Schumacher should take his ugly face and stick it up his sorry ass.

Herman Munster
Rochdale, UK
Sep 26, 2011
Scummy fans say hes won 7WDCs, 91 wins yakety yak. They dont look deeper than that the shallow idiots.
If you look into all those BS successes, you see he was a cheating @#$%&. And he's lucky to be driving at his age, Senna didnt get the chance.
Scumacher only became successful after Senna had died, and if Damon Hill took him to the wire and would have won the 94 WDC if the cheating @#$%& hadnt crashed him out of the race, Senna would have wiped the floor with him.
Domination doesn't equal "sportsmanship", try You tubing the Rasscasse incident for an example of the low down dirty cheat.
I wish he'd broken his frikkin neck when he hit Perez, I'm still laughing at that one.

Herman Munster
Rochdale, UK
Sep 29, 2011
Red Ass Bob
"you are stupid and blind enough to see that he lifted way to early in that corner ... "
Read this slowly so you can understand it.
Schumacher was wrong. He crashed into perez, perez didnt reverse into him.
He either misjudged it and ran into perez OR he was too close and was caught out when perez lifted to let him pass. Either way mother, he was in the wrong.
For him to blame perez showed what an arrogant pig he is, he blamed DC when he crashed into him in Spa and he now blames perez when he crashed into him in Singapore. He needs to stop blaming everyone for his idiot mistakes and F off home.

---------------------------------------------------------

...so don't tell me I'm flame baiting when everyone knows why you hang around. Would you like links too? Flame baiting is when you say Nico should be the number one driver and you have happily pointed out before a million times that Michael only achieved what he achieved coz he was a number one driver as if to say he wouldn't otherwise. So now it's ok?
A true MGP fan would be disappointed if not both drivers manage to get points so which is which then?

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16 Apr, 2012 17:40 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
The thing I'm so delighted in is Mercedes has come into being.
Regardless who gathers the points we have arrive after 2 years and 2 races. I don't know about the rest of you but my doubt is diminishing and for the first time I have the feeling Mercedes will get points and be challenging for wins and podiums.
I also believe Michael will carry the weight we expect of him with some good results through out the remainder of 2012. (whether Herman likes it or not)
Nico has now tasted blood and will drive with a new confidence. We surely need not to worry about our boy, as he will "be taking care of business"
China was our coming out race and it was great. Sadly it was only marred by the bad luck of a faulty wheel nut gun. Plus Michael took it like a man expressing team pride while knowing all the time he was robbed of a good performance.
I think and hope Bahrain will showcase both drivers delivering double digit point results.
Mercedes is back IMO.

sessions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2012 17:51 by sessions.

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16 Apr, 2012 19:46 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I agree Sessions view.

Lets stop bashing and name calling... shall we.

Maybe this teammate battle thing is too flamable issue. Heh.

Anyways i hope i can continue to keep this thread updated after every race. And all of your views means a lot.



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16 Apr, 2012 23:27 Report
K1 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
if MB can carry the confidence, and the car continues to perform under different race conditions, then the possibilities of challenging the top teams is quite realistic.

as the saying goes, 'one swallow does not a summer make'. the most important point to come out of china is simply, 'we, MB, can do the business'.

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17 Apr, 2012 07:33 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
@K1

True that!!



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17 Apr, 2012 07:43 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
We're gonna get an answer pretty soon, Bahrain has totally different characteristics. Asphalt more abrasive, temperature is higher so if we do well there then yes, title talk and hopes are for real.
So glad we have another race so soon, keeps the momentum going, doesn't it? smiling smiley

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17 Apr, 2012 07:58 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Yes it does, i am all hyped.. 1-2 (Sm157)



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17 Apr, 2012 13:18 Report
Herman Munster (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Spartan

Arguing with you is like arguing with my Mrs. You have completly lost the original argument, so you drag up something from the past and throw that in the mix as if it will in someway prove something which isn’t at all connected. Like her, there is a total lack of logic in your reasoning. Are you related by any chance? (Sm6)


By the way, what makes you think my posts weren’t sincere, they certainly were, I meant every word. But those posts were in the past before I became a reformed character and turned over a new leaf. Don’t get me wrong, I still despise that man for his lack of sporting ethics and humanity, but now I’m not nearly so brutal in my criticism of him and will just smile quietly to myself when appropriate.

Anyway, we have Bahrain to look forward to so stop being so silly.

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17 Apr, 2012 15:08 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Quote:
Herman Munster
Spartan
Arguing with you is like arguing with my Mrs. You have completly lost the original argument, so you drag up something from the past and throw that in the mix as if it will in someway prove something which isn’t at all connected. Like her, there is a total lack of logic in your reasoning. Are you related by any chance? (Sm6)


By the way, what makes you think my posts weren’t sincere, they certainly were, I meant every word. But those posts were in the past before I became a reformed character and turned over a new leaf. Don’t get me wrong, I still despise that man for his lack of sporting ethics and humanity, but now I’m not nearly so brutal in my criticism of him and will just smile quietly to myself when appropriate.

Anyway, we have Bahrain to look forward to so stop being so silly.

Herman I do not know what is most worrying, if it's the fact you are married [and therefore a grown man] and wishing another human would break his neck or the fact you consider a few months ago as past or years old history. The Mrs sure deserves a Nobel prize for putting up with this. I must admit that it takes guts to be caught with the pants down pretending to be a "go MGP!" supporter when at the same time you post on another forum like a sort of road warrior wishing all sorts of horrible stuff to an MGP driver amongst verbal attacks to the posters there.
I'm glad that according to you, you are reformed [lol!] so that finally we might be spared of idiotic remarks, flame baiting and BS of the sort. Still unlike others, a few of us here can see beneath the skin and comments that have the sole purpose of irking others are easily filtered out.
Initially I would have sworn I was dealing with a kid not a married man tbh, coz just like kids they tend to break things and then hide their hands. By sincere I mean the true intention behind them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2012 15:11 by Spartan202.

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17 Apr, 2012 16:11 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
LOL, this is neverending battle.

I put some hard facts for u2:

Spartan 7 titles
Herman 1 win.

Sorry Herman but you cant win. LOL



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17 Apr, 2012 16:46 Report
sessions (IP Logged)
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Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
Guys.

Love you all, but this site isn't a one-up on you competition.
We are here to voice opinions. Sometimes comments don't exactly satisfy all of us, but we do need both sides of the coin posted.
If that gets done without personal assaults and not overly criticizing our team then so be it.
Agreed some of our posters seem to not like one our drivers and at times go overboard with negative banter, but as of late the criticism has slowed and has been less aimed at team individuals, but a team shortcomings which IMO is rather fair game.
Controversy offers up an opportunity to delve deeper into the workings of the sport we all love which brings us together at this site.
So in closing (PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE FEELINGS OF YOUR FELLOW POSTER BEFORE YOU VENT YOUR VIEWS)

Thanks sessions

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17 Apr, 2012 17:43 Report
Timba7 (IP Logged)
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Date Joined: May, 2007
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Posts: 3841
Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
I agree.

Sessions has done great job in keeping this place up. So we all must try to help the man.



http://image.redbull.com/rbcom/0010/1/320/213/001/424/237/rosberg-hamilton-mercedes-launch-2013.jpg

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17 Apr, 2012 17:52 Report
Well Well (IP Logged)
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Date Joined: Jan, 2011
Location:
Posts: 549
Re: 2012 top teams and drivers
and so do I, just don't like it when people insist on pulling the wrong strings or try to be sly.
Well I'm willing to let the water flow.
On to Bahrain then.

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