Sauber aint look as good as in testing. Do you guys think that its the car or maybe drivers fault? Would Kubica–Heidfeld duo have done better job in C29?

Yes of course they would have. However, that doesn't mean the team's problem in Bahrain was drivers. Nick and RK would've probably given us an extra 3 tenths over the current drivers in qualifying. especially Robert. On the other hand, Pedro's knowledge of the Mclaren may be worth more than that. Kamui is an aggressive overtaker and that benefit can be measured in seconds rather tenths when it comes to the final race time.

Both.

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2008 Prediction Champion

I choose third option:

Money is the problem.

I think you guys are over-analyzing the Bahrain GP. It was not as significant as you say in terms of knowing the real pace of the C29.

The new 2nd sector changed things completely, especially the bumps. The C29 will have a much better pace in Australia; Malaysia will be first really significant, and Barcelona the real key.

The drivers may not be slightly as fast as last years', but they are very close; they are certainly not the main factor.

And I'm still supporting my claim that the C29 will be able to pick podiums -perhaps not backed its full pace, but by retirements or incidents of the top teams helping

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Racing against the machine!

80% cars / 15% drivers / 5% luck

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Good comment El Kadafi. Pretty good ratio analysis.

sessions

Added incentive - 4 teams will have to make changes to the diffuser come this Aus GP.

Force India, McLaren, Mercedes, and Renault.

If this doesn´t help ( achieving top 6, forget about podium ) on top of retirements and incidents, then God must help the team.

Indeed German Rocket

By the way, I made a call, and it's indeed the car issue. It's lacking aero efficiency, and especially straight line speed. On the other hand engine and so on are more than ok, and drivers isn't the issue.

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Racing against the machine!

You're right the driver's aren't an issue, they should have got a couple who could have a better chance to better the issue.

sessions

One the end it is about driver 2 different drivers and one of them will do better then another in the some car.

Sauber have always been exceptionally good at the Aus GP in the previous years. So its rather good timing that they can show some kind of performance jump after a disastrous Bahrain teaser.

Unfortunately Aus GP track is not indicative of the car´s true potential. We´ll have to wait till Sepang.

We must be patient, the season has just started, obviously the bumpy new part of bahrain track was not the best for c29 performance, the compromise in this black and white circuit is critical, and it seems bahrain track was the worst circuit to fit c29 carachteristics.

I am optimistic, we have a full motivated team, engineers, directors, drivers, supporters, ... for sure kamui, pedro and the c29 will make a better performance in australia, I hope one of our cars scores the first points of the season.

C`mon guys!! Go sauber Go!!!

IMO:

85% cars / 5% drivers / 10% luck

Welcome Arrows76 and Vitinello.

An excellent first post, Arrows76, I agree with your summation of the Bahrain weekend. After the race in Oz I think people will be talking about Pedro as one of the big surprises of the race.

Unfortunately, the truth is in Bahrain, the C29 performed rather badly in all the 3 sector times.

Pedro 12th, 10th, 13th quickest in S1, S2, S3

Kobayashi 10th, 13th, 11th quickest in S1, S2, S3

So you see the bumpy ride in S2 was no different from the other 2 sectors for the C29.

Weclome guys!

german Rocket, but that's distorted by the compromises in set up, so it's not indicative. The bumps WAS a big factor...but not the only one. As I said, the car is lacking of aero efficiency (confirmed from inside!)

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Racing against the machine!

Knowing they have an aero issue, will they have changes for down under ?
Welcome aboard Arrows76 and Vitinello.

sessions

Quote:

Raid Phoenix
Weclome guys!
german Rocket, but that's distorted by the compromises in set up, so it's not indicative. The bumps WAS a big factor...but not the only one. As I said, the car is lacking of aero efficiency (confirmed from inside!)

But wouldn't the bumps have affected other teams equally as well? I think it is an odd explanation: the race was a wash due to a couple of bumps on the track?! Really? Come on. The explanation that the car is lacking in top speed and/or aero efficiency sounds much more realistic.

Quote:

SauberF1-Canada
But wouldn't the bumps have affected other teams equally as well? I think it is an odd explanation: the race was a wash due to a couple of bumps on the track?! Really? Come on. The explanation that the car is lacking in top speed and/or aero efficiency sounds much more realistic.

Not a couple of bumps, but a whole sector 1 minute-worth full of big bumps!

ANd that twisty section forced to make compromises in set up, big ones, including putting more downforce and softening suspension. Obviously hat affects the time in the other sectors too.

Bumps are usually underestimated by fans, just check what I've just read: [adamcooperf1.com]

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Racing against the machine!

Its the bump in the middle of turn six (caught most of the cars in the field by the way, as well), not the whole section with -¨big bumps¨-really?- as you mentioned.

The corner to the entry has a sizable bump on the apex that many of the cars bottomed out.

As Pedro had put it;

"The overall grip level is very low out there and the new part is really bumpy," said Sauber driver Pedro de la Rosa. "One bump especially before turn seven I find dangerous because the cars are bottoming there a lot."

Quote:

German Rocket
Its the bump in the middle of turn six (caught most of the cars in the field by the way, as well), not the whole section with -¨big bumps¨-really?- as you mentioned.
...

"The overall grip level is very low out there and the new part is really bumpy," said Sauber driver Pedro de la Rosa.

I don't understand your point. You questioned why someone said the entire new ssection is very bumpy, and then you provide a direct quote from Pedro saying that the "new part is really bumpy." From the wording, he's not referring to just one bump.

Secondly, in order to achieve a fast lap time, you have tailor the car to be quick in the slowest corners of the lap. The difference between a Ferrari and a Toro Rosso in a 5th gear corner might only be .050 sec, but in a 2nd gear corner it is more likely to be 2 or 3 tenths.

S2 is the slowest ssector. To stay competitive, the team would have to relinquish whatever advantages they had in the quicker sectors in order to address their deficiencies in the slow sector.

If the C29 was bottoming out in the slow bumpy sections, to make it quicker and increase driver confidence and predictability of handling you would increase the ride height. This costs you downforce, as well as reducing the efficiency of the underbody and it's ability to extract air from underneath the car, resulting in an additional drag penalty on the straights.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 24/03/2010 05:52 by KineticKid.

Its valid if the C29 was the only car affected, it is a nice explanation in within that scope but apparently most cars were caught out as well. As someone here mentioned 1-minute worth of big bumps whereas Pedro made mention of that middle of turn 6 bump as the problem.

See where I´m coming from ? I hope so.

If not, just let it pass.

Tech expert Craig Scarbs is backing what I've been saying: [scarbsf1.wordpress.com]

BMW Sauber

Bahrain was not the fast starting performance the team would have wanted. The car struggled on the bumpy track more than their rivals. Sauber like a very low ride height, with this comes compromises with stiff suspension and grounding over bumps. Unable to get the grip and control they needed the poor qualifying performance hindered their race. However like McLaren their race performance was far better than q suggested. However both cars retiring with unrelated hydraulic faults are another warning sign for the team both at the track and with the design and production people at the factory.

With a demand for more downforce and less bumps in Australia, along with revisions to their set up and weekend strategy should see Sauber in a closer fight with their rivals. Weekend preparation started early for the team with Kobayashis’ debut in Australia being eased by the drivers using the ex-Toyota f1 simulator for practice.

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Racing against the machine!

The C29 likes low ride height (much more than the other teams - this explains everything), therefore particularly sensitive to bumps - compromises set up as a result. A flaw ?

Bahrain not the only bumpy circuit, right ?

Anyway, its all clear now.

Thanks.

Let´s see what´s in store for us in Australia.

They all wish Bahrain was the only bumpy course. I think we'll see our share the bouncy's this season. Sauber has to address it no doubt.

sessions