Disappointing Qualifying for Red Bull

I hope someone in RB will ask the question "WHAT WENT WRONG?" Times in the various free practice sessions all looked encouraging & as though both cars might get in the top ten & be well placed for the race itself.
If RBR are happy with being a disappointing team, then says so. Otherwise it's time for some much improved performances - or at least to know why they're not improving.

In his comments above, Mark said the team knew getting into Q3 here would be tricky. The track is a collecton of slow corners and this is acknowledged as a weakness of the RB4.

Hoping for some (bigger than everyone elses) improvments with the Barcelona updates.

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I didn't hear DC clear enough in free practice, but sitting in his car in the garage discussing the car with his engineer over the radio on the TV coverage it was clear then they couldn't get the answers out of the car they needed. The car simply couldn't do it . There was resignation from DC then, thats why he doesn't seem to concerned.

Same with Bourdais. I feel so sorry for the guy. He is obviously a good driver but is having to drive a car full of short comings. I can't see him grabbing a better drive in F1, so he'll just plod along for 2 years or so before going back to champcar never being able to compete in F1.

But yeah,..must have been really frustrating for both DC and Webber knowing the the cars performance maxed out under par.

Quote:

trollie
I didn't hear DC clear enough in free practice, but sitting in his car in the garage discussing the car with his engineer over the radio on the TV coverage it was clear then they couldn't get the answers out of the car they needed. The car simply couldn't do it . There was resignation from DC then, thats why he doesn't seem to concerned.
Same with Bourdais. I feel so sorry for the guy. He is obviously a good driver but is having to drive a car full of short comings. I can't see him grabbing a better drive in F1, so he'll just plod along for 2 years or so before going back to champcar never being able to compete in F1.

But yeah,..must have been really frustrating for both DC and Webber knowing the the cars performance maxed out under par.

You've highlighted DC and Bordais.

DC had the same machinery as Webber, and if he couldn't find the answers he and his engineers must have been looking in different places compared to Mark.

Being able to set up a car to give you one lap performance is a fundamental skill.

Not sure why your feeling sorry for Bourdais. Yesterday was probably his best day in F1 so far. He put a highly promising, much hyped team mate in the shade.

Webber and Bourdais did a good job with what they had to work with - DC and Vettel will be disappointed, but live to fight another day.

They hand out the points tomorrow. Let's see what the old dog and the young lion can produce....

What I was suggesting going by DC's radio comments is that the RB4 didn't have the answers the track threw up. That goes for Webber as well. Not a set-up issue, a fundamental car issue.

Webba is always going to out qualify DC. I think that is a given by everyone. Webba has always been a step ahead on setups with good and bad cars.

Neither Webber or DC seemed disappointed because they extracted the maximum of what the RB4 had. They almost come across as satisfied knowing they did their jobs to the best of their abilities with the resources they had.

I think its a case of "our car sux at this track period"



I've heard Bourdais's radio comments over the last two race practices now and he just isn't comfortable with the car. While he wants to go faster the car just can't do it. Yesterday his comments in Q2 over the radio in the garage were, "lets just save our tyres and I'll go out and do a lap toward the end of the session because we have no chance at making Q3. Lets be realisitc, the max is p12"

I thought that was an extraordinary comment for Bourdais to make. He has got balls. Looks like he's cottened on to F1 very quickly and doesn't seem to have the patience to 'play the game'

You can see that Montoya/JV/American racing attitude there. He's come over to race and has found himself to be nothing more than a jockey. You can hear the frustration on his voice and comments.

So I feel sorry for SB because he just hasn't got the profile to move up in F1 and is going to have to be content to turning up to GP weekends knowing the where the car is "low teens" and unable to preach his talent. Remember, Luizzi is a GP2 champion just like Lewis and Nico and driving the an uncappable STR didn't do his career any good at all.

Bourdais would be fantastic to watch at the pionty end of the grid, I think we need more hot blooded american groomed drivers in F1.

So my comments about the drivers and RBR cars is more about good drivers not having the equipment they need to perform. Setups didn't and won't compensate for cars that simply haven't got the inheriant performance to begin with.

A very frustrating weekend for drivers, lets not hammer any of them down


/rant

Unfortunately the car simply isn't quick enough, and I get the feeling it will be a carbon-copy of 2007 minus the attrocious reliability.
Looking from the outside, and I know I'm not a designer, but it simply seems that the car isn't being developed enough. The mirrors on it hark back to Malaysia 2007, the front wing configuration is basically the same as mid last year, the rear wing looks basically the same as what we had in Bahrain/Spain last year, and the appendages on the sidepod have remained basically unchanged for a year.
It needs to be changed, what are they doing back at the factory??
They simpy don't appear to be developing enough, and it's amazing that we're holding onto Renault/Williams as well as we have.
I WANT to see CHANGES at Spain, a new wing package (and I mean a proper new wing packacge, not just 1 millimetre bigger endplates or something) and a quicker car.
The actualy chassis appears to have good enough baseline pace to get decent points, but it is simply not being extracted at the moment by Adrian, Geoff and the boys.
Come on.

There will always be drivers in cars that cant do the job. This is and has been part of F1 for a long time. Why do you start feeling sorry for this arrogant noob? You are clearly taking some sort of depressant drug Trollie!

Beat your team mate! If thats all you can do, you better make sure you do it.

Quote:

trollie
What I was suggesting going by DC's radio comments is that the RB4 didn't have the answers the track threw up. That goes for Webber as well. Not a set-up issue, a fundamental car issue.
Webba is always going to out qualify DC. I think that is a given by everyone. Webba has always been a step ahead on setups with good and bad cars.

Neither Webber or DC seemed disappointed because they extracted the maximum of what the RB4 had. They almost come across as satisfied knowing they did their jobs to the best of their abilities with the resources they had.

I think its a case of "our car sux at this track period"



I've heard Bourdais's radio comments over the last two race practices now and he just isn't comfortable with the car. While he wants to go faster the car just can't do it. Yesterday his comments in Q2 over the radio in the garage were, "lets just save our tyres and I'll go out and do a lap toward the end of the session because we have no chance at making Q3. Lets be realisitc, the max is p12"

I thought that was an extraordinary comment for Bourdais to make. He has got balls. Looks like he's cottened on to F1 very quickly and doesn't seem to have the patience to 'play the game'

You can see that Montoya/JV/American racing attitude there. He's come over to race and has found himself to be nothing more than a jockey. You can hear the frustration on his voice and comments.

So I feel sorry for SB because he just hasn't got the profile to move up in F1 and is going to have to be content to turning up to GP weekends knowing the where the car is "low teens" and unable to preach his talent. Remember, Luizzi is a GP2 champion just like Lewis and Nico and driving the an uncappable STR didn't do his career any good at all.

Bourdais would be fantastic to watch at the pionty end of the grid, I think we need more hot blooded american groomed drivers in F1.

So my comments about the drivers and RBR cars is more about good drivers not having the equipment they need to perform. Setups didn't and won't compensate for cars that simply haven't got the inheriant performance to begin with.

A very frustrating weekend for drivers, lets not hammer any of them down


/rant

Fair enough.

I feel your pain if SB is your guy and you want him to be able to show his ability in a competitive car - I've followed Webber's career (say no more...).

I think we're letting DC off the hook a bit.

There's a heartbeat separating the mid field teams. When it's that tight, some days you're gonna be a Rooster, some days you'll be a feather duster.

Yesterday DC missed Q2 by literally a whisker. Mark barely scraped through himself. The track may have come to the car a bit in Q2 as it seemed a little more competitive, but unfortunately Jenson was 8 thousandths too quick.

We're talking wafer thin margins here, and track position is everything. Mark may be able to hold onto the back of Alonso and Button, but I can't see him getting into the points unless there's some attrition in front.

Unfortunately the car simply isn't quick enough, and I get the feeling it will be a carbon-copy of 2007 minus the attrocious reliability.

That sums up the problems we are having. Whilst rbr claimed that the rb4 is an evolution of the rb3. I cant actually see anything significant that has been improved (note: improvements that give tangible results/benefits). The RB3 was struggling for stability and pace in slower corners and the same problem is seen in the rb4. In my opinion webber is pushing the car right to its limits and really flatters the performance. I still place rbr behind renault toyota and williams, with honda fast catching up. Some of their second drivers are not up to par yet else we would be further down the order.

Chins up guys. Lot's of mechanical failures tomorrow will help us into the points.

Yeh, to argue for RBR the cars Aero works well (apparently) its the mechanical grip we appear to be lacking, although some new wings would be nice to look at they might not be the right things for this car??

Also is it just me or does the Renault Donk we got, seem very slow?

You don't know. We might have to run massive wing to get the speed in the slow corners. This inhibits aero efficiency and we pay for it with outright speed. To you it looks like the engine is poor, it might not be that at all.

You are always in trouble if your relying on other people's misfortune to have a good race. It could be a race like Melbourne, but I think a race like Sepang is more likely (a couple of retirements but most likely Force India's or STR's).

Duffer, were obviously not running huge wings if were still@#$%&in the slow corners

The engine would have very little performance differences to last year's engine due to the freeze and as a result no one else's would be majorly different, do there's nothing wrong with the engine.
Anyway, a fantastic chassis can drag a terrible engine far better than a fantastic engine can drag a terrible chassis.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:04:06:06:14:08 by markwebber#1.

mabey theres something wrong with our engine intergration then??? or the new ECU makes it perform @#$%&

All i will say is this...about 3 or 4 races in last year with the RB3 people were saying bring on the RB4, now 3 races in this year with the RB4 people are saying bring on the RB5!

I just hope 3 races in next year people are not saying bring on the RB6!

----Webber versus Alonso----



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:04:06:08:21:25 by -Whitey-.

RBR spent most of the off season working on reliability so we shouldn't expect a big performance gain, on my calculations this years car is about 4-5 tenths quicker then the Rb3 and this years Williams is about 6-7 tenths quicker then last years car

im only going on the first 2 races and this ones qually so i might be wrong

They've said the aero balance is okay, but obviously our actual aero efficiency isn't that great. We're also struggling with mechanical grip as the team has said. Multiple areas to combat.


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