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Re: Canadian GP: Race
WilliamsF1Portugal 08 June, 2014 21:22
Let´s be honest, none of this would´ve happened if we were a organized and well driven team, Bottas had to let Massa pass, I am positive that if Felipe had gone sooner to the fight with Vettel and Perez we were talking about a win now.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
spam1 08 June, 2014 21:31
knew Massa would struggle to get pass Vettle. One thing catching him. But passing is quite another. Just some clever positioning by vettle at key corners was all it took. Massa getting fustrated, and tried to pass Perez too quickly, once Vettle was through...throw in some S.A rivalry, and had all the ingredients..

Out of intrest, who does the strategy calls for our team? Is there 1 engineer for each driver?

Also, surely our pit wall should have informed Massa that Perez was having brake issues?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2014 21:35 by spam1.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Anderis 08 June, 2014 22:00
5 places grid penalty for Perez due to accident with Massa.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
andy si 08 June, 2014 23:24
Quote:
MiggsF1
Quote:
WilliamsF1Portugal
Btw, big props for the guys at the factory tremendous job with the car, shame that the track team is not up to standard.

100%.

Agreed!

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Mtmateus 08 June, 2014 23:48
In this video is clear that Perez moved left.
And he also changed his line in the breaking zone !


[youtu.be]

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Ozzy Osbone 08 June, 2014 23:50
Whatever. Massa was too tame as usual. Couldn't close the deal. He had the fastest car and didn't manage to pass anybody. Not even Renault powered cars.

A better driver (eg Button) would have won this race for us today.

Another balls up.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Mtmateus 09 June, 2014 00:01
Massa managed to overtake several cars during the race and without that first 7 secs pit or the late second pit, he would finish much better.

And, most important of all, the crash was not his fault !
Blame him is ridiculous !!

Re: Canadian GP: Race
rpralon 09 June, 2014 00:27
Could you remember a single overtake from Massa this year ?

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Bond 09 June, 2014 01:48
Quote:
Francesc

But the whole point of today is that if we even had the Mercedes car, we would have managed to not win a race, so bad is the team.

Ummm...even Merc with a Merc car didn't win the race...

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Gwanni 09 June, 2014 05:16
So after all it was Perez fault...

Re: Canadian GP: Race
SehnKhan 09 June, 2014 05:47
Disappointed of course. The team really needs to learn from this race, and learn quickly - they made some very bad judgement calls during the race which ultimately cost us a chance at a podium today.

So we should all dust outselves off - we've had plenty of bad days, our good day is just around the corner.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
drunkmunky 09 June, 2014 06:24
wow. I just watched the race.

wow.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
j-s 09 June, 2014 06:34
Moving on... 10 years of misery, today is a minor blemish in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
williams4284 09 June, 2014 06:52
Now I am in a state to talk.

I was really disappointed as all of you on here with the race.

It was really our great occasion and we lost it.

There were several things that compounded our misery.

1) losing third place on the grid,
2) Pitting Bottas early. (can't blame the team for that as we usually slate them for not doing it).
3) Bottas flat spotting that front tire on the first lap, for nothing gained.
4) screwing Massa's pitstop.
5) Pitting Massa for the second time. (I guess that was far too early since he was getting away or keeping rosberg at a distance for the time being.
6) Not ordering Bottas to move out of the way, Jesus are we a team or not. I was really @#$%& off by that.
7) Massa not getting it done on Vettel was the cherry on the cake for getting more under pressure.
8) True Perez was blamed, but why the hell was Massa so close to him, he only swerved a little.

Asd many stated, it is really getting difficult to support Williams. I'd like to write on a paper all my feeling and send them to Frank. What if we write a letter to Frank with three salient points and sign it all and send it. We are a bunch that could do that as we love the team. Especially the thing of letting ourselves down for not having the balls to go on the radio and tell anyone of those drivers to move out of the way for the other.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
backsoon 09 June, 2014 07:39
What a disaster.
We are being really unfortunate this year, particularly with Felipe.
Still we are on the battle for 3rd on the WCC, under 30 points behind Ferrari, which is way better the most optimists would have thought by the end of last season, but what a frustration.
Felipe has lost in the range of such 30 points due to crashes for which, as per stewarts verdict, were someone else's fault.
Grrrrrrrrr
IMHO the team and the drivers are deserving way more than what they are getting, and just hope things dont continue to be like this and we start to enjoy trouble free races.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
azouris 09 June, 2014 08:16
F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Smedley unhappy with Force India 9 June 2014
Rob Smedley believes Force India was wrong to leave Sergio Perez out on track when he had been suffering from a brake issue


Rob Smedley believes Force India was wrong to leave Sergio Perez out on track when he had been suffering from a brake issue.

Perez and Felipe Massa collided heavily at the end of the Canadian Grand Prix, with both drivers requiring precautionary trips to hospital due to the size of their respective impacts. Perez was given a five-place grid penalty for the incident and Smedley explained what he had said to the stewards as he felt Force India should have told Perez to back off.

“I showed them all the evidence,” Smedley said. “I showed them the data from that lap and from the lap before. Felipe – at high speed because he's well in to the tow – brakes about five minutes earlier than the lap before. We showed them evidence from the side shot where if you take Felipe and Sebastian [Vettel] through the braking phase the distance between them is exactly the same and you see that Perez is backing towards Felipe.

“We showed them the overhead shot where Perez … first of all he brakes very, very early, which you can see from the side view. Second of all, when he brakes the car … either he jinks it to the left or because of the brake problems it jinks to the left, I don't know.

“And we showed them evidence from the radio transcript – which I think was around lap 67 – talking about 'we have no rear brakes'. 'I've got no rear brakes' I think was his comment, and they said 'Well if you can carry on, carry on, and if you can't, pit', which says to me it's a fairly f*****g terminal problem to be honest. Why you leave a car out when you've got that sort of problem is beyond me.”

And Smedley said there had been other examples during the race of teams putting safety first with similar issues.

“You saw two teams – one of which was ours – knowing when to call it quits. With Valtteri [Bottas], we had to tell him to back off saving brakes and saving engine – more critically brakes because it can be dangerous – we had to back him off and we had to lose points, that's life.

“Lewis Hamilton – because of his problem which was brakes and engine again – had to stop the car. A guy who is fighting for the world championship and he had to stop the car, so I am a bit peeved to say the least that this has happened.”

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Blizz 09 June, 2014 08:23
Quote:
rpralon
Could you remember a single overtake from Massa this year ?

Two Torro Rossos, Hulkenberg and Fernando. That's just from yesterday. Mind naming me a few from Bottas?

@azouris, thanks for that. Much of respect to Rob, the lad is a top bloke!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2014 08:24 by Blizz.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
azouris 09 June, 2014 08:23
FORCE INDIA IGNITE CONSPIRACY THEORY AFTER PEREZ PENALTY

9 June, 2014

Force India suspects a conspiracy, after Sergio Perez was penalised for a terrifying last lap crash at the end of the Canadian Grand Prix.

As they tussled for fourth on the last lap, Williams’ Felipe Massa hit the back of Mexican Perez’s Force India, sending them both into the tyres at high speed.

They were both transported to Montreal’s Sacre Couer hospital for checks and later released with no injuries.

Both Williams and Force India pointed the finger of blame. Williams’ post-race press statement said Perez “crashed into” Massa, but Force India claimed Perez was “the innocent victim”.

The Mexican said after a check up, “On the final lap I was defending my position going into turn one when I suddenly got hit from behind. It was a big impact, but I am okay.”


Ultimately, the stewards sided with Massa, penalising Perez five places on the forthcoming Austrian Grand Prix grid.

But according to Auto Motor und Sport, however, Force India suspects a conspiracy because, in addition to the four stewards in Montreal including former driver Derek Daly, also in the stewards room on Sunday was Adrian Fernandez.

Former Indycar driver and Mexican Fernandez was Perez’s manager until two years ago, when they split acrimoniously .

“The driver steward was Derek Daly,” said Force India team manager Andy Stevenson. “I don’t know why Fernandez was asked for his opinion.”

FIA race director Charlie Whiting insisted: “From time to time, there are observers to the stewards. Fernandez will be the driver representative in Russia, so we invited him here to have a look.”

Whiting said any talk of an anti-Perez conspiracy is “nonsense”.

Re: Canadian GP: Race
crusty_bread 09 June, 2014 08:34
I was unable to comment yesterday because I was catatonic.

The morning after, here's a little analysis:

White, the colour of surrender
Williams surrendered the 2014 Canadian GP when Massa pitted for the second time. Everything pales in comparison to this monumental @#$%& up. I couldn't see how Williams could lose staying out in that position.

Whilst Bottas may (or may not) have suffered from thermal tyre degredation sliding behind competitors, Massa, in clear air, in the lead, pulling away at a ridiculous rate, setting consistently fast lap times- had the race totally at his mercy. Paul Hembery of Pirelli commented before the race that the soft tyres could run from here to Vancouver, yet in the interview after, Rob Smedley, based on no actual evidence whatsoever I can gather from free practice- deduced that in actual fact, Paul Hembery was wrong, and two stops were quicker- as evidenced by the fact that Williams would have beaten Perez.

PEREZ. The Williams was massively faster than Force India all weekend, so to be desperately trying to catch them at the end says to me that Smedley was totally and utterly wrong and the most worrying thing of all is, he can't see it. What the team failed to appreciate was that Williams' straight line speed is a brilliant defensive weapon, and there was no evidence anywhere that the soft tyres would drop off enough to make him vulnerable. They basically invented a scenario where Massa would start limping around and lose 3 seconds a lap on some laptop somewhere and nothing anywhere suggests that projection was correct. In fact, everything pointed to the opposite.

Worse, they stuck to this guess despite all the evidence to the contract, and then totally failed to factor in th race circumstances- ie, Rosberg's issues and the overwhelming evidence that cars running in groups were nigh on impossible to overtake. So pitting Massa was on every level, an awful error of judgement.

Whoever pushed for it- whoever suggested, argued, tried to justify that the tyres wouldn't last based on no actual evidence, and that it was best to surrender track position and drop behind a group of DRS cars- needs sacking now.

I like Rob Smedley, he seems a nice chap, and he's certainly working well with the factory in terms of getting the performance onto the car from the factory- which is is primary job, but even before the race, my impression was that he isn't the sharpest tool in the box. What Williams need is a man of vision on the pit wall. They need to stop hiding away Pat Symonds and utilise his obvious savvy, because right now, Williams don;t stand a chance of outhinking, or even matching Force India without some major restructuring of how they devise strategy and put it into action.

Bottas pitted too soon
A normal criticism of mine is that he always pits too late, but this time, I fail to see how emerging right behind a 2 car battle is anything other than another surrender. Ok- they had few options at that point, but that was probably the worst thing they could have done. at least try a 1 stopper, and if significant lap time loss is in evidence, he would then have the benefit of much fresher tyres with a splash and dash. Pitting slightly earlier into traffic is a 100% guaranteed losing strategy- as evidenced by Bottas' comments after the race.

Massa doesn't have the brains to race
all strategies should factor in Massa's...inefficiency in traffic. When Vettel made his mistake, Massa made 2 errors. 1- Vettel was in the middle of the road before Massa committed to a move. He went to the outside. Epic fail. 2- (and I have just checked) in his excitement he forgot to engage DRS. It never activated- it activated down the following straight. If this was a penalty shoot out, Massa aimed wrong and scuffed the ball.

Perez / Massa accident
The obvious point is that Perez was suffering brake issues. He had been passed into turn 1 by Ricciardo the lap before, so much so that Vettel and Massa almost tripped over eachother so early had Perez breaked. Whether his race engineer told him or not (and on safty grounds, they really should have done) he could have spotted Perez' issue himself. this is the end of the Canadian GP FFS, and Bottas was struggling with brakes behind.

But still- for Perez to drift around a right kink to take the middle of the track when he knows he has someone right behind him, before immediately jumping onto the breaks very early was a very dangerous move. What did he expect would happen?

Re: Canadian GP: Race
Anderis 09 June, 2014 08:39
Quote:
Blizz
Mind naming me a few from Bottas?
Just rewatch the whole Australian GP. (Sm100)

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