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Re: Spanish GP: Race
andy si 14 May, 2017 21:05
Depressing...
Even more so with the fact that FI scored the bonus race result with 4th & 5th.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
andy si 14 May, 2017 21:15
Quote:
AlanJones
Quote:
phatjack
Quote:
AlanJones
Quote:
phatjack
How did Max do in comparison?
Max qualified 5th, battled for third in corner 1 and got bumped out by an unfortunate series of events.
What is it you want to say? Stroll didn't perform AT ALL. No excuses. He knew this track.

No one is excusing anything ... just pointing out that Max being F1's prodigy and with all his talent couldn't get through the first corner.

Complete bull and totally irrelevant. Max being a prodigy was bumped out. Our guy simply is slower than Maldonado ever was. Even when he was crashing.

Max won this same race last year.
There were quite a few drivers bumped in the 1st corner during the race.. even the eventual winner.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
andy si 14 May, 2017 21:21
Quote:
Mehryar
I say again, if Claire has anything from frank, she should fire this useless guy asap.
He was not 50 seconds behind I think it was 60seconds, by the end of race Felipe was 4-5 seconds ahead.Counting the VSC laps, you will see 1.2second slower than Massa!!!WTF!!!!WTTTFFFF!!! He is going backwards, to be so @#$%& compared to Massa on a track he knows the best, is clear.he has no pace, no brain, no racecraft.So far he is the worst thing in our team in last 2 decades.hats off to Bruno and Kazuki.Atleast they had flashes of speed sometimes.

What I can not understand really, is presence of him here.Kazuki brought us cheap engines, we were nowhere in those years, same with Pastor...but Now it's 3years we were the best midfield team, why should we see such a phenomenon in our team once again?!

Hats off to FIF1...We are just a hype, Oh Williams signs this, Williams signs that...but they manage to produce good cars and attract better drivers and use up all their chances with good strategies.

LOL@Massa too...he shows why he was not wanted by top5-6 teams this year unless Nico retirement came in.He has so many brain fails.Just compare him with Alonso...Alonso is a double WDC driver, in a moral breaking car for 2.5 years but still makes zero mistakes through Qualifying, Race, Start, anything...Massa, oh weldone for throwing away 12 points.

He only destroyed Massas result as I understood

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Mehryar 14 May, 2017 21:35
"He" you mean Alonso?! You need to check the replays again, specially the helicopter camera shows it all.It's a common place to go around the outside and Fernando was well beside him with so much room on the inside.infact Massa destroyed our race and Alonso's race.12points gone there + giving 4 more points to Force Indias as a gift.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Darron 14 May, 2017 23:36
Surely 4th is out of the question in the CC now. some comfort I guess is the last two races without the punctures we would have finished ahead of FI, but the pair of them would be in the next two slots meaning we would still lose points.

Renault are close now but they have the same predicament as Williams only one car looking capable of points.

Monaco has been appalling for Williams of late, I don't have much hope of us scoring any points.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
rpralon 15 May, 2017 02:33
Lance Stroll or Lance Slow ...
What a bad race... simply pathetic
Massa is a tire eater ... no matter the problem with Alonso at start. Stroll is really slow.
The cherry on the cake was Alonso passing the duo at straight with his under powered Mclaren.
And Williams has fallen to 6th , behind a far F.I. and also Toro Rosso.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/05/2017 02:40 by rpralon.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Alt Right Duff 15 May, 2017 03:20
Renault engine upgrade coming. Reports are it will be 0.5s, but i imagine not. But if it is only half that, renault are likely to jump williams reasonably comfortably.

Guys, this is the negative side effect that must be endured for a good car next season. All the new guys will start to team up and results will come. Just get a couple of better drivers.

Oh, and i hope the pathetic pr dribble coming from the team stops, it really doesnt make anything better.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
erratic 15 May, 2017 18:54
Think Williams fans have been thinking 'next season' for a few decades now...As for Stroll, oh my, hoped for the best but at the moment it just looks like a rich daddy's boy getting to live out his fantasies.
Still, we hope next race will be better, or maybe the one after that, or the one after that...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/05/2017 18:55 by erratic.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
erratic 15 May, 2017 19:00
Just reading the James Allen article, apparently Massa was lapping 6s faster than stroll in the final three laps,
JAF1

Re: Spanish GP: Race
phatjack 15 May, 2017 23:11
So was Palmer. Stroll must have been experiencing car troubles.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Alt Right Duff 16 May, 2017 00:32
Couldnt see properly from all reports. Too many tears.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Myvatn 16 May, 2017 08:08
Quote:
erratic
Just reading the James Allen article, apparently Massa was lapping 6s faster than stroll in the final three laps,
JAF1
Yep

[en.mclarenf-1.com]

But I think he just finished the tyres and the team did not bother calling him in to change them - what for? After passing him Massa was 2 secs per lap faster - I hope that, as Francesc wrote, they just wrote the race off and detuned the engine.

Horrible race. Our experienced driver just can't keep out of trouble, our young one is useless. Compare that to Force India, and it's hard not to be @#$%& off..

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Alt Right Duff 16 May, 2017 09:20
Ocon i had doubt about to be honest. His first few races were less than impressive. Now, i can see his potential for sure. He is showing some signs, unlike lance.

Hulk was a loss for fi, but they have done well to pick up ocon, and perez is always solid, particularly when a team needs points day in day out.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Alt Right Duff 16 May, 2017 09:23
In fact, no. Maybe i am being conned! Is lance making all these other rookies look good? I find myself now looking at wehrlein too and thinking, he is coming good the lad!

Between lance and to a lesser extent palmer, these guys are making everyone look good!

Re: Spanish GP: Race
AlanJones 16 May, 2017 11:49
Quote:
Alt Right Duff
Ocon i had doubt about to be honest. His first few races were less than impressive. Now, i can see his potential for sure. He is showing some signs, unlike lance.
Hulk was a loss for fi, but they have done well to pick up ocon, and perez is always solid, particularly when a team needs points day in day out.

Hate to say told you so, but Ozzy and me have been telling here all along that there were just two talents the past 2 seasons that were dubbed as potential world stars. Ocon is one and the other is some Dutchman. The talent of Ocon was to be reckoned even for a blind guy. So I'm a bit surprised that you've had your reservations.

Anywho, it is so hard for me not to burn Stroll down to the ground. My fingers are aching to blast off a rant on him. To have, for once, the pleasure to tell Crusty the dreaded "I told you so!".
Still Monaco and Canada left. Let's see if the kid betters himself.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: Spanish GP: Race
crusty_bread 16 May, 2017 15:28
Well I've had a really busy weekend, so I missed the race and only caught the Channel 4 highlights this morning. I guess it spared me a lot of misery.

What a shocker. The last two races have been brutal, haemorrhaging big points to FI in a car that is clearly faster. Massa's race pace was really strong, and a comfortable P4 went begging. Stroll had clearly his worst weekend in a Williams.

I think beating up Massa for the incident at the start is unreasonable. Alonso attempted the move around the outside from a very long way back, and required Massa to lift and stay left, but had he done so, he would probably have been wiped out by Raiikonen and Verstappen who were both drunkenly veering sharply back onto the track from the left. He missed them by staying right and keeping flat, so they rejoined behind him- just. Otherwise, it could have been a horrible smash. His only option was to stay flat to the right and hope Alonso in his blind spot, who was still behind, would blend out of the throttle. That didn't happen- Alonso was in fully committed do-or-die mode trying to bully Massa out of the way. It was a racing incident.

You could say Alonso threw away a solid points-scoring opportunity by trying to intimidate a driver at a very dangerous moment with cars coming from all angles. So Alonso's miscalculation has left his works Honda team on 0 points needlessly, but that is just the other side of the coin to trying to make Massa look awful and Alonso look amazing. Both looked fast, both came away with nothing. These things can happen.

A brilliant race at the front. I really enjoyed that. You have to say whilst Lewis scored a very hard-earned and well deserved win, Vettel was very unfortunate with the virtual safety car and Bottas getting involved, losing a good 12 seconds for reasons beyond his control. The assumption from the BBC is that Lewis and Mercedes is favourite to win every race, but honestly, I think Mercedes are scrambling at the moment, lucking out in the wet in China, just pipping Vettel in Russia, but otherwise looking plain outpaced across full race distances. I think unless Mercedes can find more speed, Vettel will pick up more wins than Lewis as things stand.

Stroll- well, where to begin? A very disappointing weekend. I think it was a clear case of his flustered, inexperienced driving style cooking the tyres and ruining his stints, and Barcelona was very unforgiving for tyre wear, so it showed him up more than elsewhere. Even in qualifying, Williams had to do extremely slow warm up laps to make the tyres remotely useable by the end of the lap, and that made the difference between P14 and P9 for Massa. And all in a car that could be the 4th fastest when in the sweet spot. Tyre management was obviously critical- especially for Williams.

Stroll may know the circuit, but he still isn't on top of this car, so knowing which way the corner goes is pretty irrelevant until he is driving the car rather than the car driving him, and that will clearly take time, and probably more time than most of us have the patience for. What is frustrating is that he did throw in the odd decent lap in Barcelona. I still maintain there is speed in him, it's just if you cook the tyres, you're stuck going slowly. He's shown good race pace at times in Melbourne, Bahrain and Russia and looked on for points in Bahrain but for being wiped out by Sainz, so I don't think he has been completely useless across his first 5 races, but neither will I pretend that this event was anything other than abysmal. I think Barcelona just showed up an aspect of his performance that is probably his weakest at the moment, and that is smooth car control leading to carefully controlled tyre management. I'm reminded of the 1997 Spanish GP where Villeneuve managed his tyres well to take a comfortable victory whilst Frentzen who qualified 2nd had a bad start, and overheated all his sets in his desperation to race the cars infront, ending up 8th, over 1 minute behind Jacques, despite sitting in the fastest car that he had a ding-dong fight with JV for pole the day before. Frentzen could manage his tyres, and was extremely talented- he had Hungary locked down due to clever strategy and good execution, but a mixture of high pressure and bad tactics meant he put in an utterly useless weekend in Spain.

And speaking of useless, what about Vandoorne? Taking a points-potential car, and lumbering around at the back before binning it needlessly into the side of Massa. Marvellous. That was a Schumacher-Jerez'esque turn in, minus the cynicism or awareness.

The last 2 laps where Stroll lost 5 seconds a lap was probably due to the horrendous flat spot he incurred on his front left I think it was. He did it locking up trying to stay ahead of Massa about 3 laps before the end of the race which is pretty coincidental timing, so it was probably self induced, and tyre related. A dangerously high vibration and no balance or grip.

TBH, right now, it goes without question that Wehrlein would do a much better job in that seat, certainly least for the next 3 races. Everyone except Vandoorne or Palmer. Stroll wont do anything until Austria IMO. However, resting him wont help in the long term. Feeling the car at low speed, and driving on pure mechanical grip with little aero effect should be a good learning experience for Lance, to inform his driving and improve his judgement in slow corners on the faster tracks, so even if he has an absolutely useless weekend at Monaco, it's all knowledge for him to bank and make him develop into a more all-round driver.

It's still far too early to say "I told you so" in terms of Stroll being a write-off. That is a very dangerous game to play when all it takes is one good race weekend for the tables to turn. I thought the same about Rosberg at the 2006 USA GP. Webber was out, and all Nico had to do in a high attrition race was beat Liuzzi's Toro Rosso- a man he had outqualified- to score 1 point. He failed, and finished 9th and last. It was an utterly useless weekend. But even very good drivers can do that when they are rookies. Just look at JB. The fact is, without Stroll. Williams, with ever accumulating debt, would have put in even less development than last year. There would be no hope of a big upgrade for Hungary, and I doubt very much Williams would have secured Lowe had they not been able to demonstrate to him that they had the means to execute some of his ideas. Hiring Stroll probably got us Lowe at the end of the day.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
erratic 16 May, 2017 17:52
I wonder what sort of psychological impact this is having on Stroll (if any). He is still a youngster and in many ways is being hammered - including and outside on the track by his own teammate and outside of the race by fans willing to make fun of his pay driver status.

Suppose it's down to his and the teams initial expectations, was this just a learning season for him with the hope of an odd point here and there, or was the expectation higher - another Verstappen, earning points and demonstrating great race craft?

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Mehryar 16 May, 2017 18:23
Crusty,
On Massa incident, you are clealy seeing it biased as a Williams fan.there were plenty of room inside to where Kimi and Max were comming from out of track.
Going around that corner is as normal as taking the inside line at the starts.everybody does that every year.ansolutely not a do or die move.
Vandoorne didn't have a points scoring car either, though I agree his performance is too far off Fernando in first 5 races.but come on, also I never rated him as next Max, but it's nearly impossible to shine in that Mclaren.they can hardly do a proper test session fully, experience is a big problem for him so if any rookie needs more time to adopt, it's Vandoorne imho.

Btw, a question to all posters is does anyone know how much money Lance is bringing in? Any idea? Number and size of his sponsers are not anything special.so it must be pure cash throwing in and I wonder if all of these funds mixed up is as big as Pastor's sponser money? And I can very much doubt your claim about a connection between Stroll money and Paddy's buying stake in our team.Maybe for doing his ideas, he needs more fund (through a work deal, big sponsers or Stroll money or whatever) but I do believe for signing up and buying stakes, money had little to zero effect.for sure Mercedes and Renault could offer him a bigger salary.what he wanted was a new challenge in face of what Patrick Head did or Newey was planning to do in our team.To be recognized as the real boss/owner/stake holder and Williams is easily the best place for it.you can't do it in Renault or Mercedes.other none-manufacture teams are having smaller factories so...I can't see the connection for Paddy "joining" our team...developing his ideas? Well sure it needs money but with what price? Being 2 places down the WCC standings covers all the money Stroll brings in so he NEEDS to perform.And it must be done very soon to save our place.
Tactical reasons can't be good excuses to tolerate this guy on this form anymore.

Edit: Massa still lacks what it takes to be a team leader.how long did it take for him to overtake Stroll? Compare it with time Alonso spent.surely his newer tyres helped alot but Mercedes engines power vs a honda power unit, it's a bigger differential by any means.
He still lacks to react in crucial times.whether it's a hard place like this race start or whether its overtaking.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2017 18:32 by Mehryar.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
phatjack 16 May, 2017 18:33
Mehyar 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing. Now suppose the mentioned $40 million that Stroll brought to the table resulted in him driving a lump of junk?

Do the tables swing then?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2017 18:34 by phatjack.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Mehryar 16 May, 2017 18:47
Well my english limitations prevents me from understanding your post phatjack, but 40million $ for what period of time? One year?! I doubt that very much but if its so, then I better take that and stick to Massa results for reminder of season.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

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