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Re: Spanish GP: Race
phatjack 16 May, 2017 19:06
It's a 1 year deal. So if my math is correct 87* - 40 million = 47 million. That $47 million happens to be prize money Manor earned last year for coming last.

* Wiliams 2016 prize money

Re: Spanish GP: Race
crusty_bread 16 May, 2017 20:21
Mehryar, you can't seriously be implying that Vandoorne needs more time to adapt to F1 than Stroll?

Vandoorne is 7 years older, he has 4 years more experience racing in single seaters, he finished 2nd in GP2 before completely dominating the GP2 championship whilst Lance has had to step up directly from F3, and Stoffel has been test driving McLarens for 3/4 years. Stoffel is a proven talent. He is also proof that these cars can be hard to master for a rookie, no matter how talented. Stroll is just a baby by comparison.

I don't know how much money Stroll Sr pays. I get the impression it's more ad-hoc, as in, if Williams need money for something specific and he thinks it will help his boy, then he will pay. So Lowe's salary- check. Lowe's projects- check. Funding for faster development turnaround - check. Symonds made it abundantly clear that Williams' limitations were financial, and that he had a whole host of projects lined up that couldn't be realised for budgetary reasons. Then daddy Stroll comes on board, a host of top names start being linked to the team, and Lowe joins because he is excited by Williams' long term plans. It can't be a coincidence.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2017 20:25 by crusty_bread.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Mehryar 16 May, 2017 20:57
Well I'm serious about Vandoorne deserves more time to be considered good or bad than Lance.

You say driving on Barcelona with other cars, knowing corners and track means not that much compared to driving in this year F1 cars so both are on same level, with Vandoorne having way less driving time in these cars.lance may have missed alot of miles too but it was mostly down to his own mistakes, so here I see Vandoorne excuse for struggles alot more acceptable.they even hadn not enough milage to do much setup work to find sweetspots for a driver.
Considering Vandoorne testing in F1 in last couple of seasons, they can't be anywhere near what Lance was doing in year old F1 car, both were old cars, both were on testing sessions, still Lance having more milage.
Age + lower categories excuse is the one you use most of the time, I say again, if he was not ready for this step then why is he around? GP2 was impossible to be done? No! He and his dad saw enough reasons to step right into an F1's down to him to perform, not Williams to pay for his age or optimitic move to F1.
I can't remember rookies to shine in unreliable slow cars before, maybe in times they had another rookie alongside but with more experienced and clear base for comparing, they mostly struggled till the time a good car was given to Rosberg, like Hulk, like anyone who have had both a good and bad car in his rookie season, their form changed by the pace of the car.same will happen to Vandroone imho...for Lance, it's an easy life...James Allan claims Massa lost 2-3 second after his first pitstop to it shows how much better this car was compared to Force India, Renault and STR.and it's reliable too.Put it in top10 in quali and be 0.3-4 sec off the ultimate potential pace of the car and he was somewhere between 4th to 8th easily.

For the money he brings, I do hope there's a connection as you tell.atleast it makes his presence here "abit" more acceptable for "1season".but I won't buy Symonds excuse tbh.I liked the guy is still the best thing we had in last 7-8 years in our team but after checking through what teams like RBR were able to manage do in 09-10 with 1/2 to 1/3 budget of bigger teams, makes me think problem is not all and technical team needs a big shake up, and that's what Lowe and De Beer are doing now, hopefully.

But let's imagine Lance brings in 50million $ to the team in only 1year.This money helps our new technical guys produce a very big upgrade plan and all parts perform as expected and they are clear and direct result of Stroll money.well, the car will be a clear 3rd car for example but still Lance @#$%& it up in quali, manages to get out of Q2 and finishes the race out of points with his miserable pace/tyre management/ what's the point then?! He must perform as soon as we get there to Austria and Silverstone.if not, keeping him in our lineup is a clear sign of Williams not being what it was before.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
crusty_bread 16 May, 2017 22:02
You're onto a lost cause with your Vandoorne argument. Stoffel doesn't even come with money as a justification to stay patient with him. I honestly expected far more from him. He's far older, on a shallower learning curve, he's spent 3 full championship seasons competing on a level higher than Stroll, and therefore, making the transition from those categories to F1 aught to be a much smaller step and easier to manage, with his experience in those categories surely counting for more. (Formula Renault 3.5, + GP2 X 2 years) He settled racing and competing instinctually at a higher level than his peers at a performance level much closer to F1 than Stroll has had opportunity to, so there's less reasons to believe that if he can't cope this year, he could cope next year than with an 18 year old leaping into F1 from F3. If the rumours are true, that McLaren handles well in the corners now, and with an underpowered engine, that is actually a pretty easy ticket, and the opposite of the Williams which is high power, slippery efficient low downforce, and as a consequence, very knife-edge on it's tyres. (though I suspect the McLaren may also be high drag, so not necessarily faster)

For examples of rookies shining vs experienced teammates in poor cars, see Heidfeld in Prost in 2000. A dire car, rarely noticed, but still stuck it to Alesi a few times.

For Stroll, its a bit like taking a doctor out of medical school 3 years earlier than Stoffel, giving him a load of dead bodies to experiment on, then putting a scalpel in his hand and expecting him to perform surgery straight off. It is too early for him, it is clearly too big a step for him to handle comfortably in his first season, but like I say, if it comes with money, and that money allows Massa to fight for more than low end points, and maybe even makes Williams seem like they have more potential than, say, Renault, for the likes of, say, Alonso, then bring it on.

I don't support a short sighted, midfield approach, which is why I don't want to see Williams with two mediocre drivers and a mediocre budget. I take Button as my reference, where he had a very poor first season with a handful of good drives, was dropped, then in season 2 at Benetton, started matching Fisichella towards the end of the year before going toe to toe with Trulli the following season. He admitted he wasn't ready for F1 aged 19 at Williams, but that didn't mean he couldn't develop into a very good driver, and an asset within 2 years.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2017 22:12 by crusty_bread.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Alt Right Duff 16 May, 2017 23:18
Vandoorne is in a much more difficult position in that mclaren, wnd alonso is a demi god.vandoorne has shown performance, and will beat lance hands down.

The williams is a good race car, they all have the same tyre sweet spot. Massa has been pulled from the bin and dusted off. Williams are being absolutely shafted by their drivers, no doubt.

Stroll has shown nothing. Nada. Nix. He doesn't have it. Never will.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
stt 17 May, 2017 17:44
Alt Right Duff

Stroll has shown nothing. Nada. Nix. He doesn't have it. Never will.

Now, now, Duff, you are jumping to conclusions. You need to wait at least 2-3 years to decide if the boy is an asset. He is only 18.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
Alt Right Duff 18 May, 2017 10:00
Nope, nobody gets 2-3 years in f1. That is throwing 10s of millions into the toilet, maybe more. If this were right, we would have each team with a race driver and a paying rich kid. Senseless. Maybe it would be fun to watch a race with 10 strolls!

Re: Spanish GP: Race
crusty_bread 18 May, 2017 16:21
He deserves a full season to throw in 3-5 good qualifying sessions or drives (ie, matching or beating Massa on pure speed) which demonstrate, proof positive that he CAN do well, despite a lack of overall results,

If he can't, then staying for another season would be entirely financial, rather than believing in his potential, and I would endorse his dismissal from a racing perspective.

Assuming he manages a few good efforts, He then needs to go on to put in a respectable second season- one that justifies his place on merit of results. Consistent point scores, close to, or matching his teammates' points haul.

For season three, he needs to be good. Fast and consistent, and better than just "ok" to justify the pain of season 1.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
stt 18 May, 2017 17:20
I was being sarcastic. F1 is not a driver school. Crusty keeps pointing out that he doesn't have the GP2(F2) experience. No one made him skip GP2. Last fall he said he is entering F1 because he is ready, something like " are ready, when you are ready...". Williams said he is ready. Turns out he is anything but ready.

Re: Spanish GP: Race
andy si 18 May, 2017 22:08
"He" you mean Alonso?! You need to check the replays again, specially the helicopter camera shows it all.It's a common place to go around the outside and Fernando was well beside him with so much room on the inside.infact Massa destroyed our race and Alonso's race.12points gone there + giving 4 more points to Force Indias as a gift.

I missed the incident, but as with Lance and his Sochi spin... comments you read and rely on do not always say the truth but more often than not the perception of truth from the viewers point.

But I didn't miss the incident between Hamilton and Vettel.
To me.. it was poetic justice that Hamilton got past with such ease some laps later.

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