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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
SydneyF1Fan 30 July, 2017 22:01
The other aspect is the introduction of autonomous self-driving cars. If this becomes a reality, then they can all potter off to a big recharging stations over night and between trips, removing the issue of parking on streets and inadequate home charging capabilities.

I don't think I'll bother watching the Formula E Self-Driving Championships, though, unless there's a Mad Max car!



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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
MartiniSalad 31 July, 2017 09:24
I'm watching it full time from next season onwards, it's just too exciting for me to miss. It's also gonna keep on getting better and better, what we have now is like a work in progress. A beta.



You can only get over your fears if you attack them head on - Mika Hakkinen

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
AlanJones 31 July, 2017 10:21
Formula E is not exciting at all Salad. It really isnt.




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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
phatjack 31 July, 2017 10:25
Quote:
SydneyF1Fan
The other aspect is the introduction of autonomous self-driving cars. If this becomes a reality, then they can all potter off to a big recharging stations over night and between trips, removing the issue of parking on streets and inadequate home charging capabilities.
I don't think I'll bother watching the Formula E Self-Driving Championships, though, unless there's a Mad Max car!

One can charge to 80% capacity in about 20 - 30 minutes currently. That's about the same time it takes to enjoy a quick lunch.

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
AlanJones 31 July, 2017 11:19
PJ, I see it as follows and for this subject I will take the most efficient vehicle available right now with the best mileage to the charge: A Tesla model S. Which does an average of 350 to 400 kms a charge.
If I owuld go on a holiday to the south of France, it would mean a distance of approximately 1200km for me. This would normally be a 1 stop journey only for a refill (excluded the peepee breaks), since my car can do 600kms to a full tank easily. During that one stop I will fill up the car, visit the can, eat something, stretch my legs and so forth. This will be a 30 minute stop easily. So yes, my car can refuel in that time on electricity. But 80% capacity of only 400kms is 320km. This would mean that in comparisson to my trustworthy fuel guzzling car, I would have to make two(!!) additional stops of at least 45 minutes(!!) to even get there. And then Im not even talking about the small trips with the car when I am in the Southern part of France. Campings or hotels most of all do not have the facility to recharge cars these days. This would be impractical when youre on a holiday. As time is already scarce and you do not want to refill every 300kms.

And then lets discuss my car when Im working. As said before Im in Denmark a lot these days. A single trip is about 600kms where I need to be. Again, I can do that in a single stint of fuel at the moment. I travel 2 times a week to Denmark. This would mean I would have to get an additional stop every single trip of again 30 to 45 minutes.
To me, this is not acceptable. But to me it wouldnt be acceptable even when I lived close to my work. An electric car should do the same mileage as an average car. And average is in my book 600kms. Thats what you easily get out of a 3 cylinder Ford Fiesta these days. Anything less is unacceptable.

Cars should be practical and fun to use. Thats the whole appeal of it to most of us now. Not being usable items that you need to think about when and how youre driving it. Whole generations will be born within 15 years from now that will only wonder how it must have been, getting in your car for fun and cruise around the country just for the fun of it. No worries about your charge because you could do 600kms easily. Not only getting in a car from A to B because you need to.




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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
Duffer 31 July, 2017 12:19
To get 400km in the infancy of development is fantastic. If we all swap to electric, the development speed would be fantastic. Also, your argument does not take into account the fossil fuel you purged from the ground never to return, nor the emissions you created on your nuce convenient 600km tank.



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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
AlanJones 31 July, 2017 12:39
Correct, but to be honest.. Im selfish enough to care less about my emissions that have been thrown in the air. Certainly if you compare it to the United States of Asswhipes that arent even trying to reduce their carbon footprint.
So, as long as one of the biggest polluting nations in the world isnt caring, then my tiny little footprint isnt making that much of a difference.




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2017 12:53 by AlanJones.

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
MartiniSalad 31 July, 2017 13:19
Sorry to say AJ but I sometimes even find it more exciting than an F1 race, it might just be divebombs at 90 degree corners to some but it's overtaking nonetheless, and the carnage and unpredictability makes it fun for me. Also, the rules are better enforced in it, an improvement on the pic and mix penalties F1 sees. I'm becoming a firmer supporter of it, even if electric is a dead end, because it's still zero emissions racing and it's making the idea palatable to more people. I still prefer F1, but it's closer between the two for me than I first thought and it's a nice surprise to me.



You can only get over your fears if you attack them head on - Mika Hakkinen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2017 13:20 by MartiniSalad.

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
Ozzy Osbone 01 August, 2017 00:15
Quote:
AlanJones
Correct, but to be honest.. Im selfish enough to care less about my emissions that have been thrown in the air. Certainly if you compare it to the United States of Asswhipes that arent even trying to reduce their carbon footprint.
So, as long as one of the biggest polluting nations in the world isnt caring, then my tiny little footprint isnt making that much of a difference.

But that would be the attitude of a @#$%& idiot.

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
SydneyF1Fan 01 August, 2017 11:32
Quote:
AlanJones
An electric car should do the same mileage as an average car. And average is in my book 600kms. Thats what you easily get out of a 3 cylinder Ford Fiesta these days. Anything less is unacceptable..

Agreed that range between charges is an issue, but 600kms is pretty rare for most urban dwellers and commuters. The average urban car is probably lucky to do 15-20,000kms per year, so 300kms would be plenty for day-to-day trips.

Battery capacity and recharges will improve. Also the industry could standardise on a "swap and go" feature where you simply swap over your old used battery for a fully recharged one at a service station.

Or if we move to self-driving cars, then you simply swap cars when out of charge.

It's a bit like the shift from manual to automatic gears. You lose part of the fun of driving and a car just becomes a means of getting from A to B, like a bus or train trip.



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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
andy si 01 August, 2017 11:54
Quote:
Mikef1
Quote:
Duffer
Everyone is an expert, hahaha. Facts are made up on the spot.
In any case, humans will figure it out. Dont worry.

Humans likely won't figure it out. We've already dealt a fatal blow to our planet and its creatures. No real effort to reverse those effects. It's not profitable to figure it out.

thumbs down ... sadly!

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
Ozzy Osbone 01 August, 2017 13:57
This is the thing with EVs. Most people saying they will never catch on don't have ordinary driving habits. Maybe they drive for work all day or make a lot of long trips. But they are in the minority. Most people make regular, short trips or commutes and even current EV's are more than adequate once you get used to the charging idea. With new technology, the range will improve, the charging be easier and more automated.

Very soon it will make no sense for most people to buy a liquid powered vehicle. Very soon.

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
Mikef1 01 August, 2017 14:11
Now we just need a source for all that lithium and were sorted... except there isn't any.

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
AlanJones 02 August, 2017 13:31
Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
Quote:
AlanJones
Correct, but to be honest.. Im selfish enough to care less about my emissions that have been thrown in the air. Certainly if you compare it to the United States of Asswhipes that arent even trying to reduce their carbon footprint.
So, as long as one of the biggest polluting nations in the world isnt caring, then my tiny little footprint isnt making that much of a difference.

But that would be the attitude of a @#$%& idiot.

Depends. Why should I have the same norms and values as you have? Why should I care about the planet? For that time when Im not here anymore? For your children? Im not planning on any offspring, so Im certainly not doing it for them. Should my joy in life suffer over norms and values of others that do care? Should I act, think, do the exact same as society wants me to? Or am I an individual with an own opinion and an own agenda?
I find this a very intriguing matter to discuss. Because why is my attitude per definition more wrong than yours?
Am I able to do things more differently? Oh yes certainly. But why should I? Name one valid reason that I agree upon and then you can call me an idiot.


Quote:
Mikef1
Now we just need a source for all that lithium and were sorted... except there isn't any.

Well there are new types of batteries on the market and being developed. Batteries with formic acid are one example. Even city buses are now running on this acid as a primary fuel. So yes, there will be other solutions. Some day.




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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
phatjack 03 August, 2017 09:41
Quote:
AlanJones
Correct, but to be honest.. Im selfish enough to care less about my emissions that have been thrown in the air. Certainly if you compare it to the United States of Asswhipes that arent even trying to reduce their carbon footprint.
So, as long as one of the biggest polluting nations in the world isnt caring, then my tiny little footprint isnt making that much of a difference.

So that would make the American's bigger idiots than you?

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
Duffer 03 August, 2017 09:45
Nice touch phatty.



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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
AlanJones 03 August, 2017 10:55
Nice touch indeed. That really tells me off. Wow Im so impressed with you PJ. It almost seems like youre a grown up little boy. Kudo's to you.




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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
SydneyF1Fan 04 August, 2017 07:06
No problem bring selfish AJ, provided you don't gripe if some other selfish people decide to regularly smash in your headlights, scrape their keys down the side of your car, rob your house and do lots of other antisocial things that waste your time and cost you money.

After all they're only here on the planet for a short time and it makes no difference to their life. They may even enjoy it.



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Re: Electric cars. Not the future
MartiniSalad 04 August, 2017 09:42
Being selfish is a state of mind, depends what the general view is snd if you feel you have sufficient logic to justify going against it. In this case, you're not the only one @#$%& the planet over for the future, far from it, so the general view might be to save the planet but the general action is to go 'Ah, screw it'. Thus, you're justified pretty much, as you say you won't hold indirect relevance in terms of children once you pass. Doesn't set an admirable precedent but who really does on here, or in general? We all have a selfish streak.



You can only get over your fears if you attack them head on - Mika Hakkinen

Re: Electric cars. Not the future
phatjack 04 August, 2017 22:07
Being selfish is not a bad thing. Judging a group of people and calling them all ass wipes because of one deluded individual's agenda just promotes a false narrative as AJ has shown.

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