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The Pirelli Factor
Discussion started by Mikef1 , 19 April, 2018 15:59
The Pirelli Factor
Mikef1 19 April, 2018 15:59
Over the last few weeks it has been clear how many people have been struggling at times to work the tyres which has been responsible for the new running order at each weekend and unpredictable race strategies such as Red Bull winning when Mercedes and Ferrari didn't see it possible.

I think they've done a brilliant job to produce hard wearing rubber that degrades naturally and rewards the teams and drivers for getting it right. The running order will continue to fluctuate all season and the tyres are not inconsistent in their behaviour but the teams specific performance on each one. I think we will continue to see surprises such as the merc pace in Bahrain on mediums and red bull dominating on the soft.

Do you view this as artificial?

Re: The Pirelli Factor
Lalaland 19 April, 2018 17:17
"and unpredictable race strategies such as Red Bull winning when Mercedes and Ferrari didn't see it possible."

For the sake of a safetycar and Charlie Whiting. When you put out the SC when the leaders cant pit with used tires, it is unfair (same with Hamilton in Melbourne, even if the story is different. And by the way Mercedes didnt pit Lewis to ensure equity between their drivers thats why they didnt tell nothing to Lewis after RB pitted, Mercedes' policy at his finess).

To answer your question, yes it is. F1 started going the artificial way to try to create a fake show, imposing tyre changes and different tyres and then DRS where you press a button and you can overtake somebody else, etc.

This is why I am not enthousiat as casual fans seems to be so far, I dont like artificial show. As soon as RB pitted their drivers I knew Bottas was finished. I dont call that unpredictable result. I call that another probability, something that can happen if Charlie doesnt do his job properly. Ricciardo didnt derserve the victory to me compared to Bottas I dont care how good his overtaking was compared to Max. Others drivers couldnt even defend with their used tires like WTF is that ? Thats not racing.

We need Michelin post 2020.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/04/2018 17:20 by Lalaland.

Re: The Pirelli Factor
Lalaland 19 April, 2018 17:18
(deleted)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/04/2018 17:20 by Lalaland.

Re: The Pirelli Factor
K1 19 April, 2018 22:49
If you want to take out this 'artificiality' then as i have said so many times, Pirelli need to be taken out of the equation. No other third party supplier has the control that Pirelli exert. My answer to this is quite simple. Pirelli produce a selection of tyres and the teams are then free to make their own choices from the TOTAL package without Pirelli ensuring that the choice is limited to what they perceive as being the optimum. That would give total freedom for teams to exercise their own choices and eliminate any remote possibilities that Pirelli could influence the outcome. I would also suggest that another supplier be mandated, Michelin come to mind and i refer to remarks made by Mark Webber when he first went to Porsche to head up their WEC LMP1 challenge. He said, 'racing with Michelin tyres means that you can push as hard as you like.These tyres are made for racing'. Selective maybe but nevertheless true.

Re: The Pirelli Factor
Mikef1 20 April, 2018 05:42
The way the tyre degrades has changed since then the drivers can now push the Pirelli tyres which used to disintegrate artificially above a certain temperature to simulate a tyre wear. Now like a normal racing tyre they degrade by being leaned on I think this change happened in 2014.

So much to the point that not all drivers and teams can switch them on which I'm actually a fan of. They don't have to drive to a delta now just to see the tyres through look at bottas out lap on Sunday it was a full qualifying style lap. 2012 Pirelli would have fallen of the cliff if he'd attempted that.

I guess my point was more specifically, I like the fact that teams and drivers can't simulate stints accurately without just bolting on the tyres and seeing if they work. Feels old school and I like it.

Re: The Pirelli Factor
K1 20 April, 2018 06:09
@ Mike F1...yes, you are correct to a certain extent but what we are seeing is Pirelli making decisions about how a race pans out by them making decisions which they shouldn't, as a supplier, be allowed to do. Surely the teams should make that decision.Different cars and drivers react differently to varying tyre selections. Hamiltons style of driving is different to that of Bottas so why should they be limited to using the same tyres? I simply don't trust a third party supplier to be 100% squeaky clean. You are aware that Pirelli modified the tyre structures at Mercedes request after testing.Was every other team asked to evaluate that decision and give their opinions? There are lots of questions over Pirelli's involvement and i would like to see them taken out of the loop.

Re: The Pirelli Factor
Mikef1 20 April, 2018 06:55
Quote:
K1
@ Mike F1...yes, you are correct to a certain extent but what we are seeing is Pirelli making decisions about how a race pans out by them making decisions which they shouldn't, as a supplier, be allowed to do. Surely the teams should make that decision.Different cars and drivers react differently to varying tyre selections. Hamiltons style of driving is different to that of Bottas so why should they be limited to using the same tyres? I simply don't trust a third party supplier to be 100% squeaky clean. You are aware that Pirelli modified the tyre structures at Mercedes request after testing.Was every other team asked to evaluate that decision and give their opinions? There are lots of questions over Pirelli's involvement and i would like to see them taken out of the loop.

Is that true? I did not know that. But as I said on another thread recently Pirelli were given stick for favouring certain teams a few years back but in reality all they were doing was making changes at the teams requests and providing data requested. If not all teams want to ask, they don't get.

To your other point, I too would rather let Pirelli allow the full range of compounds to be available over a race weekend. However, my understanding is that from a safety perspective, the tyres in the race can be too hard to work or too soft to last. Maybe if they opened up one more option (4 across the weekend) and made you choose from that pool, you would see variety of strategy but I would imagine all cars would ultimately converge to the softest 2 as we already see.

It's ironic that Pirelli changed the tyres for Mercedes who now struggle the most to switch them on



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2018 07:09 by Mikef1.


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