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Current Page: 22 of 33
Re: News and Stuff!
j-s 21 March, 2019 19:54
Saward doing his best to Captain Obvious impression:

"Elsewhere, the rumours are beginning to build about who will lead the Williams F1 technical team, as it is very clear that Paddy Lowe's leave of absence "for personal reasons" is PR chaff. Lowe is gone and there will no doubt be legal action at some point to find a settlement, but Williams now needs a carpetbeater to come in and get the place up to speed"

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 21 March, 2019 21:53
Quote:
j-s
Saward doing his best to Captain Obvious impression:
"Elsewhere, the rumours are beginning to build about who will lead the Williams F1 technical team, as it is very clear that Paddy Lowe's leave of absence "for personal reasons" is PR chaff. Lowe is gone and there will no doubt be legal action at some point to find a settlement, but Williams now needs a carpetbeater to come in and get the place up to speed"

Yes, obvious indeed. How anyone could even begin to imagine that the Technical Director for an F1 team would take, or be given, a legit leave of absence right at the start of a new season, especially when the car the design and production of which they oversaw has so many issues, is beyond me. It really pretty much defines "unthinkable."

In any case, are there any more plausible rumors as to who a replacement might be? Surely, they can't afford to wait all that long or they are effectively throwing away next season as well. It would take some pretty extraordinary sponsors to stick around if that is the course they plan to take. Hell, I've been a fan for just about 40 years and I think I would find that approach pretty challenging to my own rooting interests.

Re: News and Stuff!
dot_com 22 March, 2019 01:34
Martin Brundle had this couple of paragraphs to say about Williams in Australia. The second paragraph struck me as a little strange - I’m not sure quite what he means, but he knows F1 just about as well as anyone.

“George Russell is doing all he can for Williams. He's a smart kid who networks the paddock well. And if he can outperform the car and his team-mate Robert Kubica he can survive a year in the slowest car with his reputation intact.

Somehow soon F1 and the teams are going to have to wade in and help Williams out of the mire they appear to have navigated themselves into. If they are not already doing so.”

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 22 March, 2019 01:51
Quote:
dot_com
Martin Brundle had this couple of paragraphs to say about Williams in Australia. The second paragraph struck me as a little strange - I’m not sure quite what he means, but he knows F1 just about as well as anyone.
“George Russell is doing all he can for Williams. He's a smart kid who networks the paddock well. And if he can outperform the car and his team-mate Robert Kubica he can survive a year in the slowest car with his reputation intact.

Somehow soon F1 and the teams are going to have to wade in and help Williams out of the mire they appear to have navigated themselves into. If they are not already doing so.”

Yes, it is not clear what the rest of the field could do to help, save perhaps letting some good people with needed expertise leave to go to Williams without requiring the usual gardening leave. As much as it is in the interest of the sport in general that Williams survive as a competitive team (or just survive as a team, full stop), the competitive nature of the endeavor would seem to work against anyone letting any of their most valuable people go. They may not fear giving up much in any competition with Williams directly, at least not anytime soon. Everything and everyone counts, however, in their efforts to compete with all the other teams.

Perhaps if Williams worked out some cooperative relationship with Mercedes, the latter might provide some valuable technical assistance. I just can't see Williams doing that, however. Maybe if its a matter literally of impending collapse, that could change, with the idea that it would be a temporary solution to get them back into a position where they could at least aspire to becoming fully independent again in the future. Such a transition would, it must be said, be a lot easier one way (becoming a client team) than the other (reclaiming independence).

Re: News and Stuff!
j-s 22 March, 2019 05:49
Williams doesn't deserve other team's charity.

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 22 March, 2019 07:59
Quote:
j-s
Williams doesn't deserve other team's charity.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say this. In any case, if one or more teams were to offer Williams some help, it would definitely not be "charity." It is in no one's best interest--certainly not that of the other teams--for there to be a team that it totally out of the competition, much less for the field to shrink to 9 teams.

In truth, of course, Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull really only needs to beat each other to win. They each certainly prefer to be able to claim they have to best 9 to do so, however. They thus all have a self-interest in doing what they can to keep Williams around and in the mix at least to the point that they can drum up and keep the sponsors they need to pay the bills.

That's the conflict that troubles the effort to reform the sport going into 2021. The top teams do not want to do anything that really threatens their primacy in the sport.On the one hand, they'd rather not have to go up against 9 other teams with a real chance to win. On the other hand, a series with only 3 competitors is not viable, so they can't resist all reform either.

Re: News and Stuff!
AlanJones 22 March, 2019 09:11
I think we can manage it on our own. Just time is the essence in everything.

The only question bothering me, is if Paddy should leave us.. who can and will take over? Who does dare to take on such a poisonous position at a team that is just a swamp of failed attempts to revive its once so glorious past.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: News and Stuff!
Andrew Hooper 22 March, 2019 09:45
There will no doubt be some people who could fill the position regardless of the position that Williams is in. It is not very often that a Technical head position becomes available so a lot of people would jump at the opportunity.

For Williams the cost of getting someone of a certain talent level is a big issue as I would imagine they would want to be careful how much they pay out.

Re: News and Stuff!
Anderis 22 March, 2019 09:53
Quote:
Andrew Hooper
There will no doubt be some people who could fill the position regardless of the position that Williams is in. It is not very often that a Technical head position becomes available so a lot of people would jump at the opportunity.
I agree. And given the position Williams is in, there's a good chance that the results will improve under a new TD and someone will want to take credit for it. Successful people generally love challenges and this is potentially a high risk but high reward opportunity for someone whose reputation is not established, yet.

Re: News and Stuff!
AlanJones 22 March, 2019 10:00
We have had serious stong names these past years, but none were able to alter the team or make the car very good. From, Summerville to Coughlan to Lowe and even Symonds. They all did a job that was good, but not excelling. Wouldnt it be time to just shove a talent forward on this position? Not a settled/big name already? Give that kid carte blanche and see how it develops.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 22 March, 2019 10:25
Quote:
AlanJones
I think we can manage it on our own. Just time is the essence in everything.
The only question bothering me, is if Paddy should leave us.. who can and will take over? Who does dare to take on such a poisonous position at a team that is just a swamp of failed attempts to revive its once so glorious past.

No offense, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here: 'Williams can do it on their own. How can Williams possibly do it?'

In response...

First, Paddy is gone. There is not even the slightest chance he took an actual leave of absence at the start of a new season, especially given the situation the team is in. Seriously, there is no chance. True, there hasn't been an official announcement, but it is only a matter of time. Also, Paddy did not "leave" Williams; he was sacked.

Second, who would dare replace him? A: Quite literally anyone who is qualified for the job but does not presently hold one of the other available nine F1 Technical Director positions in the world. I think the situation is very similar to that of qualified F1 drivers. You just don't turn down the opportunity to take the position when it presents itself because it will very likely never present itself again. Just ask Robert Kubica who could have taken a reserve/test role at Ferrari but didn't. Could he perhaps have parlayed success there into a race seat there or elsewhere later? Sure, but could he gamble on that mere possibility when a race seat, even though in a struggling team, was his now? No way. Would Esteban Ocon--or pretty much any qualified driver (besides Alonso) have refused it had it been offered to them instead? Not a chance.

I don't know who Williams will eventually hire to do the job, but I am certain they are getting interested calls from all over the paddock and beyond. That is where I think another team might see the larger health of the sport as at stake and give Williams a break by making it easier for one of theirs to take the job and to start sooner than later.

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 22 March, 2019 10:39
Quote:
Anderis
Successful people generally love challenges and this is potentially a high risk but high reward opportunity for someone whose reputation is not established, yet.

I think this is right. Also, don't underestimate the confidence (or perhaps even arrogance) that success often breeds. I wouldn't be that surprised if Williams were able to get someone proven who is convinced they can succeed even where other proven people have failed. That is, if Williams can afford such a person. I also think you were right to raise that potential obstacle. If the terms of Paddy's employment require that they settle up with him for a large amount in order to terminate him, that may be a serious problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2019 10:40 by shriekback.

Re: News and Stuff!
AlanJones 22 March, 2019 12:09
Quote:
shriekback
Quote:
AlanJones
I think we can manage it on our own. Just time is the essence in everything.
The only question bothering me, is if Paddy should leave us.. who can and will take over? Who does dare to take on such a poisonous position at a team that is just a swamp of failed attempts to revive its once so glorious past.

No offense, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here: 'Williams can do it on their own. How can Williams possibly do it?'

In response...

First, Paddy is gone. There is not even the slightest chance he took an actual leave of absence at the start of a new season, especially given the situation the team is in. Seriously, there is no chance. True, there hasn't been an official announcement, but it is only a matter of time. Also, Paddy did not "leave" Williams; he was sacked.

Second, who would dare replace him? A: Quite literally anyone who is qualified for the job but does not presently hold one of the other available nine F1 Technical Director positions in the world. I think the situation is very similar to that of qualified F1 drivers. You just don't turn down the opportunity to take the position when it presents itself because it will very likely never present itself again. Just ask Robert Kubica who could have taken a reserve/test role at Ferrari but didn't. Could he perhaps have parlayed success there into a race seat there or elsewhere later? Sure, but could he gamble on that mere possibility when a race seat, even though in a struggling team, was his now? No way. Would Esteban Ocon--or pretty much any qualified driver (besides Alonso) have refused it had it been offered to them instead? Not a chance.

I don't know who Williams will eventually hire to do the job, but I am certain they are getting interested calls from all over the paddock and beyond. That is where I think another team might see the larger health of the sport as at stake and give Williams a break by making it easier for one of theirs to take the job and to start sooner than later.

Its not contradicting. I do think Williams can fight their demons on their own without help from the paddock. The how part on how can they do it, is something I didnt state. Its something you made up. I only asked who would want to fill the TD spot.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: News and Stuff!
Gunk 22 March, 2019 12:46
Quote:
AlanJones
Its not contradicting. I do think Williams can fight their demons on their own without help from the paddock. The how part on how can they do it, is something I didnt state. Its something you made up. I only asked who would want to fill the TD spot.

I think they tried that last year, Alan. People were fired and not replaced. Lowe wasn't fired . . . though it was mooted at the summer break. 'Operation recovery' . . . we all pull together with what we have.' Well, that worked a charm.

Quote:
Andrew Hooper
For Williams the cost of getting someone of a certain talent level is a big issue as I would imagine they would want to be careful how much they pay out.

Sure. Maybe they borrow some people from Merc? Ferrari lent Sauber some people when Zander left. In the early days of Force India, McLaren put people in to oversee the tech they were supplying.

I honestly couldn't say what kind of animal Williams needs at the moment, maybe they don't know either. This would buy some time.

Re: News and Stuff!
AlanJones 22 March, 2019 12:55
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
AlanJones
Its not contradicting. I do think Williams can fight their demons on their own without help from the paddock. The how part on how can they do it, is something I didnt state. Its something you made up. I only asked who would want to fill the TD spot.

I think they tried that last year, Alan. People were fired and not replaced. Lowe wasn't fired . . . though it was mooted at the summer break. 'Operation recovery' . . . we all pull together with what we have.' Well, that worked a charm.

Yes they tried it last year. But like any reorganization. you need to have patience before it pays out. You cant just fire a bunch of people when you start beginning work on your 2019 car and expect it to be a wholla lotta better. The new structure needs buttering up. People need to reinvent themselves. Teams need to get more productive over time. This will happen, but hence the reason why I did say: time is of the essence.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 22 March, 2019 16:32
Quote:
AlanJones
Quote:
shriekback
Quote:
AlanJones
I think we can manage it on our own. Just time is the essence in everything.
The only question bothering me, is if Paddy should leave us.. who can and will take over? Who does dare to take on such a poisonous position at a team that is just a swamp of failed attempts to revive its once so glorious past.

No offense, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here: 'Williams can do it on their own. How can Williams possibly do it?'

In response...

First, Paddy is gone. There is not even the slightest chance he took an actual leave of absence at the start of a new season, especially given the situation the team is in. Seriously, there is no chance. True, there hasn't been an official announcement, but it is only a matter of time. Also, Paddy did not "leave" Williams; he was sacked.

Second, who would dare replace him? A: Quite literally anyone who is qualified for the job but does not presently hold one of the other available nine F1 Technical Director positions in the world. I think the situation is very similar to that of qualified F1 drivers. You just don't turn down the opportunity to take the position when it presents itself because it will very likely never present itself again. Just ask Robert Kubica who could have taken a reserve/test role at Ferrari but didn't. Could he perhaps have parlayed success there into a race seat there or elsewhere later? Sure, but could he gamble on that mere possibility when a race seat, even though in a struggling team, was his now? No way. Would Esteban Ocon--or pretty much any qualified driver (besides Alonso) have refused it had it been offered to them instead? Not a chance.

I don't know who Williams will eventually hire to do the job, but I am certain they are getting interested calls from all over the paddock and beyond. That is where I think another team might see the larger health of the sport as at stake and give Williams a break by making it easier for one of theirs to take the job and to start sooner than later.

Its not contradicting. I do think Williams can fight their demons on their own without help from the paddock. The how part on how can they do it, is something I didnt state. Its something you made up. I only asked who would want to fill the TD spot.

I don't see how I made anything up. I just meant to point out what appears to be a contradiction in your confidence/lack of confidence in the team (we can recover on our own/how will we find someone to take an essential position needed for any recovery?). That's all. If that offends you, sorry. You said it, however, and the appearance, however perhaps unintended, is truly there.

Re: News and Stuff!
j-s 22 March, 2019 17:03
Quote:
shriekback
Quote:
j-s
Williams doesn't deserve other team's charity.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say this. In any case, if one or more teams were to offer Williams some help, it would definitely not be "charity." It is in no one's best interest--certainly not that of the other teams--for there to be a team that it totally out of the competition, much less for the field to shrink to 9 teams.

Valid opinion, but I think it's unrealistic to think that laggards get (or should get) any help.

I guess I'm referring to the narrative of entitlement around Williams that always comes up when the team is not competitive. The history, the legacy, the championships, SFW, the philosophy, all of that. It comes up when there is nothing else to celebrate about the team. And it drives a storyline, in part, about how Williams is an essential part of F1 (which I find ridiculous with each passing year).

I don't think Williams is essential. Especially when they're so inept. That's why I said they don't deserve any charity.

On a side note... Williams will stay alive a long as they can pay for the operation. In a sense, Williams may be that most resistant team to dwindling WCC prize money. They won't disappear when the owner finds a new hobby, or when the manufacturer decides to quit the sport, or when sponsors leave en masse. F1 is everything for Williams and they budget accordingly, so perhaps (hopefully) they can weather this storm and keep competing (even at the back).

Re: News and Stuff!
shriekback 22 March, 2019 17:47
Quote:
j-s
Quote:
shriekback
Quote:
j-s
Williams doesn't deserve other team's charity.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say this. In any case, if one or more teams were to offer Williams some help, it would definitely not be "charity." It is in no one's best interest--certainly not that of the other teams--for there to be a team that it totally out of the competition, much less for the field to shrink to 9 teams.

Valid opinion, but I think it's unrealistic to think that laggards get (or should get) any help.

I guess I'm referring to the narrative of entitlement around Williams that always comes up when the team is not competitive. The history, the legacy, the championships, SFW, the philosophy, all of that. It comes up when there is nothing else to celebrate about the team. And it drives a storyline, in part, about how Williams is an essential part of F1 (which I find ridiculous with each passing year).

I don't think Williams is essential. Especially when they're so inept. That's why I said they don't deserve any charity.

On a side note... Williams will stay alive a long as they can pay for the operation. In a sense, Williams may be that most resistant team to dwindling WCC prize money. They won't disappear when the owner finds a new hobby, or when the manufacturer decides to quit the sport, or when sponsors leave en masse. F1 is everything for Williams and they budget accordingly, so perhaps (hopefully) they can weather this storm and keep competing (even at the back).

Wow. You identify yourself as a Williams Supporter? If so, why? You seem to only dislike the team, they being in your eyes entitled, inessential, undeserving laggards.

For my part, I don't see the suggested entitlement at all. Should they not think they should exist as a team? Inessential? I think with only ten teams, all of them are pretty essential. That they have been around for over 40 years also means that they help define the sport for many fans. If you're not among them, see again my first question. Laggards? If all you mean by that is that they are in last place and struggling, sure, ok. But then you are just saying that no one who needs help can deserve it. A weird view, I think. Are you perhaps a fan of Ayn Rand? If so, I think you should be a Mercedes fan and root for power for its own sake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2019 17:48 by shriekback.

Re: News and Stuff!
Nuvolari 22 March, 2019 21:46
Something completely different: yesterday there was a big ROKiT launch party in Los Angeles for their phones. There was a FW41 present with the 2018 livery. If you follow them on Instagram (which I do smiling smiley), you will see quite some shots of the Williams car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2019 21:49 by Nuvolari.

Re: News and Stuff!
j-s 23 March, 2019 00:06
Quote:
Shriek
Wow. You identify yourself as a Williams Supporter? If so, why?

I'm a Williams fan, shriekback. A critical, cynical, nitpicky fan. Pleasure meeting you and welcome to the board. As to why I'm a fan, well... why do you care?

Quote:
Shriek
You seem to only dislike the team, they being in your eyes entitled, inessential, undeserving laggards

I stand by the inessential argument. There's no way Williams is essential to F1. No way. You're confusing value with necessity. Williams is valuable to F1, but they're not indispensable.

Quote:
Shriek
That they have been around for over 40 years also means that they help define the sport for many fans.

Absolutely. I love Williams for this reason most of all. Great stuff. But that doesn't justify the team's existence. This is more or less where I was going with the entitlement argument. And it wasn't a dig at you or the team, it was just a general observation about how Williams fans are obsessed with past glory and can, on occasion, use it to justify the team's place at the table... Nothing

Quote:
Shriek
But then you are just saying that no one who needs help can deserve it. A weird view, I think. Are you perhaps a fan of Ayn Rand?

That is a serious accusation. I take offense (not really). I'm not at all a fan of Rand but I'm aware how my argument is properly Randian. Oh well. That's too big a topic to dive into properly, so I won't.

And for the record, I never said that "no one who needs help can deserve it". I simply said that an inept Williams team doesn't deserve any charity. They have to clean up after themselves.

Quote:
Shriek
you should be a Mercedes fan and root for power for its own sake.

Thanks for the tip. I'll pass.

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