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Quote:Shriek
Wow. You identify yourself as a Williams Supporter? If so, why?
Quote:j-s
I'm a Williams fan, shriekback. A critical, cynical, nitpicky fan. Pleasure meeting you and welcome to the board. As to why I'm a fan, well... why do you care?
Quote:Shriek
You seem to only dislike the team, they being in your eyes entitled, inessential, undeserving laggards
Quote:j-s
I stand by the inessential argument. There's no way Williams is essential to F1. No way. You're confusing value with necessity. Williams is valuable to F1, but they're not indispensable.
Quote:Shriek
That they have been around for over 40 years also means that they help define the sport for many fans.
Quote:j-s
Absolutely. I love Williams for this reason most of all. Great stuff. But that doesn't justify the team's existence. This is more or less where I was going with the entitlement argument. And it wasn't a dig at you or the team, it was just a general observation about how Williams fans are obsessed with past glory and can, on occasion, use it to justify the team's place at the table... Nothing
Quote:Shriek
But then you are just saying that no one who needs help can deserve it. A weird view, I think. Are you perhaps a fan of Ayn Rand?
Quote:j-s
That is a serious accusation. I take offense (not really). I'm not at all a fan of Rand but I'm aware how my argument is properly Randian. Oh well. That's too big a topic to dive into properly, so I won't.
And for the record, I never said that "no one who needs help can deserve it". I simply said that an inept Williams team doesn't deserve any charity. They have to clean up after themselves.
Quote:Shriek
you should be a Mercedes fan and root for power for its own sake.
Quote:j-s
Thanks for the tip. I'll pass.
Quote:Shriek
Essential and necessary do not mean the same thing.
Quote:Shriek
Wow, something actually positive from you! Perhaps that is why I agree to an extent with this.
Quote:Shriek
I do think it's a fair assessment of your argument inasmuch as you provide no other grounds for your judgment that the team deserves no help beyond your view that it is inept, hence you seem to be claiming that they do not deserve help because they need help
Quote:Shriek
(BLA BLA BLA ABOUT FOLLOWING MERCEDES) ... but a good Randian can overlook all of that and pretend that teams like Williams are just inept and undeserving, surely
Quote:j-s
Agree Phat. But... I can't... Help... myself...
Quote:Shriek
Essential and necessary do not mean the same thing.
Quote:j-s
They do to me. And probably to Merriam Webster too.
Quote:Shriek
Wow, something actually positive from you! Perhaps that is why I agree to an extent with this.
Quote:j-s
Frightening way to establish what you agree with.
Quote:Shriek
I do think it's a fair assessment of your argument inasmuch as you provide no other grounds for your judgment that the team deserves no help beyond your view that it is inept, hence you seem to be claiming that they do not deserve help because they need help
Quote:j-s
I seem to be claiming a lot of things, apparently. Do I believe Williams deserve charity right now? Nope. Can you legitimately translate that into an loose metaphor of objectivist theory? Perhaps. Does it really matter? Not one bit.
Let's move on. Let's keep Rand where she belongs: out of this forum.
Quote:Shriek
(BLA BLA BLA ABOUT FOLLOWING MERCEDES) ... but a good Randian can overlook all of that and pretend that teams like Williams are just inept and undeserving, surely
Quote:j-s
There you go again. Why do you care how and why I follow this team? Ridiculous. You need and deserve some help to chill out!
Let me spoil F1 for you: gRAND prix. You're welcome.
Quote:shriekbackQuote:AlanJonesQuote:shriekbackQuote:AlanJones
I think we can manage it on our own. Just time is the essence in everything.
The only question bothering me, is if Paddy should leave us.. who can and will take over? Who does dare to take on such a poisonous position at a team that is just a swamp of failed attempts to revive its once so glorious past.
No offense, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here: 'Williams can do it on their own. How can Williams possibly do it?'
In response...
First, Paddy is gone. There is not even the slightest chance he took an actual leave of absence at the start of a new season, especially given the situation the team is in. Seriously, there is no chance. True, there hasn't been an official announcement, but it is only a matter of time. Also, Paddy did not "leave" Williams; he was sacked.
Second, who would dare replace him? A: Quite literally anyone who is qualified for the job but does not presently hold one of the other available nine F1 Technical Director positions in the world. I think the situation is very similar to that of qualified F1 drivers. You just don't turn down the opportunity to take the position when it presents itself because it will very likely never present itself again. Just ask Robert Kubica who could have taken a reserve/test role at Ferrari but didn't. Could he perhaps have parlayed success there into a race seat there or elsewhere later? Sure, but could he gamble on that mere possibility when a race seat, even though in a struggling team, was his now? No way. Would Esteban Ocon--or pretty much any qualified driver (besides Alonso) have refused it had it been offered to them instead? Not a chance.
I don't know who Williams will eventually hire to do the job, but I am certain they are getting interested calls from all over the paddock and beyond. That is where I think another team might see the larger health of the sport as at stake and give Williams a break by making it easier for one of theirs to take the job and to start sooner than later.
Its not contradicting. I do think Williams can fight their demons on their own without help from the paddock. The how part on how can they do it, is something I didnt state. Its something you made up. I only asked who would want to fill the TD spot.
I don't see how I made anything up. I just meant to point out what appears to be a contradiction in your confidence/lack of confidence in the team (we can recover on our own/how will we find someone to take an essential position needed for any recovery?). That's all. If that offends you, sorry. You said it, however, and the appearance, however perhaps unintended, is truly there.
Quote:boro1986willliamsf1
Why all the squabbling among Williams fans good God the team is struggling now the fans a turning on themselves bloody hell get a grip its only a sport not real life
Quote:j-s
Fun post, shriek. Thanks for the laughs. And groans.
Quote:The TerminatorQuote:boro1986willliamsf1
Why all the squabbling among Williams fans good God the team is struggling now the fans a turning on themselves bloody hell get a grip its only a sport not real life
You sir are a sane voice in a den of imploding self pity. I read this forum every day, but decline to post because of the increasing blame game and the desperate need to be the poster with the biggest dick.
Good luck with the Boro, if it helps you feel better I am an Ipswich season ticket holder
Quote:plus me two ... ooo boy (not a Ipswich fun but I can hear you mate)The TerminatorQuote:boro1986willliamsf1
Why all the squabbling among Williams fans good God the team is struggling now the fans a turning on themselves bloody hell get a grip its only a sport not real life
You sir are a sane voice in a den of imploding self pity. I read this forum every day, but decline to post because of the increasing blame game and the desperate need to be the poster with the biggest dick.
Good luck with the Boro, if it helps you feel better I am an Ipswich season ticket holder
Quote:Yep.... that's about sums it upj-s
Fun post, shriek. Thanks for the laughs. And groans.
Quote:Thanks mateWilliams-123
Fair Dinkum
Quote:dot_com
Is there a test session after the Bahrain GP? I have heard that Schumacher junior will be testing in a session this year, for Ferrari and Alfa? Is this a test that all teams will be involved in? Possibly an opportunity for us to test some new parts, if we’ve made any progress in combating the fundamental flaws of the car?