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Are we out of money?
Discussion started by CLOVERLEAF 888 , 29 September, 2019 21:51
Are we out of money?
CLOVERLEAF 888 29 September, 2019 21:51
Are we out of money for this season. Kubica said he had no idea why he was retired out of the race. Has paying paddy off actually ruined the season and development.

Re: Are we out of money?
Myvatn 29 September, 2019 21:54
It has happened sometimes to see a driver retired to save parts, but today was odd. I mean, Kubica was not going to finish anywhere higher than last, but it has been this way all year.

Re: Are we out of money?
Greg_OR 29 September, 2019 22:12
I think it could be situation as in Barcelona on pre season - some elements on car was so fatigue that driving was dangerous and any crash could cause loss of others parts in good condition or new - as Kubica's engine.
Lets hope its due to some upgrades are coming and spares to current specification was not produced.
Stopping development is nonsense as next year there will be same rules and same car but if you already know that the only way to survive is become B team Haas style with this year Merc chassis - then you stop development and don't care.
Its really hard to find any logical explanation.

Re: Are we out of money?
dot_com 30 September, 2019 01:04
I think they pitted RK because they suspected that his car may have had the same brake issue that forced GR to crash/retire. They didn’t want to risk the same thing happening to Kubica so they told him to bring it in to be on the safe side.

Re: Are we out of money?
Greg_OR 30 September, 2019 01:17
Why would they hide safety reasons in official statements:

Dave Robson, Senior Race Engineer:
We opted to retire Robert soon afterwards in order to conserve parts ahead of the intense flyaway races which end the season.
Robert Kubica:
After George’s DNF, the team decided to stop my car, to take care of the parts that we have on the car. We are not in an easy situation and Japan is around the corner.

Nothing about brake issue, and as I remember George told that he felt as front bottomed (he thought as it could be broken wing stuck under wheels) and he couldn't turn so he hit brakes and locked front left. So it was probably suspension or steering shafts issue

Re: Are we out of money?
CLOVERLEAF 888 30 September, 2019 05:01
Yeah it all seems strange. Maybe all this talk about George getting the best parts is true after all. There is so little money available. I actually thought those theories were rubbish but now I'm just not sure. This team is in serious serious trouble. They are just turning up as an obligation it seems rather than to try and race and it can only get worse as the season drags to an end. I bet Claire wishes the season was only 16 races as it used to be. I do wonder if we will see more retirements from both cars now in the rest of the races as it simply gets too dangerous to run around with overstressed parts. I don't think anything new is coming and tbh I'm thinking next season will be a write off too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/09/2019 05:11 by CLOVERLEAF 888.

Re: Are we out of money?
Andrew Hooper 30 September, 2019 05:14
Trust me the whole PL thing did cost the team a substantial sum of money.

It's odd now people are sort of surprised about the situation at Williams as though doing things to save parts would be a strange thing to do. Williams' financial position means that they have to be careful and if that means taking care with not risking parts I can live with that.

Re: Are we out of money?
CLOVERLEAF 888 30 September, 2019 08:05
So Andrew. Its the depth of the problems that are surprising. Not the problems themselves which were expected.

I can't live with that though. If your going to go racing. Do it properly or go home. The Williams name is getting tarnished by bad decisions after bad decision. I don't want to turn my TV set on and be happy with us, just surviving. What the point in that. I rather they say, enough is enough if that's the case and bow out gracefully rather than be pretenders.

Re: Are we out of money?
boro1986willliamsf1 30 September, 2019 11:50
I think with the results since from 2014-2015 we've been going backwards it time for a complete root and branch because for the last 2 seasons we've hit rock bottom but with no hint of getting out of it my patience as a fan are getting very thin watching the races and we are relying on past glory to get us somewhere but I wont stop supporting Williams though



100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE A TEAM

Re: Are we out of money?
# 33 Max Crashstappen 30 September, 2019 14:02
The sad thing for Williams is that the Renault F1 team are going absolutely terrible this season but they are still going to beat Williams easily.

The reality is if Renault are going bad this year then just how bad are Williams going, because as bad as Renault are going they are still destroying Williams.

Renault in 2018 and 2019 = bad

Williams in 2018 and 2019 = worse than bad...Shocking.

Re: Are we out of money?
# 33 Max Crashstappen 30 September, 2019 14:16
To put into perspective how bad Williams are going you just have to look at the Renault team as a good example.

In the history of Formula 1 Williams are a more successful and more legendary team than the Renault team but look at the 2018 and 2019 seasons Renault are going terrible but yet they are still destroying Williams.

Things are bad at Williams it is sad and kind of hard to watch, it is like Williams are dying in the worst possible way it is like death by a thousand cuts it is like a slow and painful death....(Sm18)

Re: Are we out of money?
WilliamsF1Fan 30 September, 2019 18:27
The message from the team does seem odd. The only thing that makes sense to me is if new parts are due after Japan, and they hadn't got a big stock of those damaged in GR's crash so needed to preserve RK's parts. Either way doesn't look good and suggests money is tight.

Re: Are we out of money?
ihme 30 September, 2019 18:59
I mean this whole season shows that we are strapped for cash and probably nowhere near last year's budget. It's not a rokit science is it?

Re: Are we out of money?
Gunk 30 September, 2019 21:44
Quote:
ihme
It's not a rokit science is it?

Love the pun and . . . no it isn't.

We have been debating the business model endlessly on here for years - we have a works team overhead without the funding.

With the advent of electric cars, I really doubt new manufacturers will enter F1 now. And they are all piling into Formula E.

I think Williams has the expertise in-house - some cool guys at WAE - to be the first to get ahead and make the leap into the new technology. Downsize, rationalise, just do it.

This crawling round at the back into perpetual debt and certain obsolescence is just crazy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/09/2019 21:57 by Gunk.

Re: Are we out of money?
Greg_OR 30 September, 2019 21:46
Looking back at the Interim report - only the Formula One department: revenue decreased by 14m but loss increased by 18m what means that they spent 4m more this year than in 2018 and the effect is dramatic, could Paddy leaving cost like 10 millions? I don't think so, so where all this money gone?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/12498aca4040c1382bd66eaf9067dd1e088fba18ceccd7d41278de731ac1efd0.jpg?w=800&h=517

Re: Are we out of money?
Gavyn 30 September, 2019 22:18
What are you on about? Yes, revenue decreased by just over £14m and earnings decreased by just under £17m (into loss). But that suggests an increase in spend of under £3m, quite possibly related to a severance package of a senior staff member and not at all concerning. Where are you getting anything about £10m from?

Additionally, with the way tax rules work, a £16m loss can be carried forward and written off against future earnings and can actually be beneficial if you're in the process of restructuring as long as they're manageable losses and the company cash balance is good.

I wouldn't be concerned about the money situation at Williams. Financial management is one of the few areas they seem to be doing ok at. Money's tight but I would put the problems with parts down more to operational issues than financial ones.

Re: Are we out of money?
Greg_OR 30 September, 2019 22:28
Quote:
Gavyn
What are you on about? Yes, revenue decreased by just over £14m and earnings decreased by just under £17m (into loss). But that suggests an increase in spend of under £3m, quite possibly related to a severance package of a senior staff member and not at all concerning. Where are you getting anything about £10m from?
Additionally, with the way tax rules work, a £16m loss can be carried forward and written off against future earnings and can actually be beneficial if you're in the process of restructuring as long as they're manageable losses and the company cash balance is good.

I wouldn't be concerned about the money situation at Williams. Financial management is one of the few areas they seem to be doing ok at. Money's tight but I would put the problems with parts down more to operational issues than financial ones.
Somebody here mentioned that Paddy's departure was severe for team finances, what is a nonsense for me, so I wrote that even ridiculous 10m wouldn't make such a mess.
And you are right - it has to be operational not financial problem.

Re: Are we out of money?
Gunk 30 September, 2019 23:37
Quote:
Gavyn
an increase in spend of under £3m, quite possibly related to a a senior staff member and not at all concerning.

£3m . . . not at all concerning
(Sm6)(Sm6)(Sm6)
Which planet are you from, Gavyn?

a £16m loss can be carried forward and written off against future earnings
(Sm6)(Sm6)(Sm6)
Ummm . . . . er . . . . but . . . oh dear

I wouldn't be concerned about the money situation at Williams
(Sm6)(Sm6)(Sm6)
Of course not. As long as long we make no spare parts, retire both cars after 5 laps, find another paying cripple to drive and use all the tea bags at least twice . . . it'll be great!!!

Re: Are we out of money?
# 33 Max Crashstappen 01 October, 2019 01:28
Quote:
Gunk
Quote:
Gavyn
an increase in spend of under £3m, quite possibly related to a a senior staff member and not at all concerning.

£3m . . . not at all concerning
(Sm6)(Sm6)(Sm6)
Which planet are you from, Gavyn?

a £16m loss can be carried forward and written off against future earnings
(Sm6)(Sm6)(Sm6)
Ummm . . . . er . . . . but . . . oh dear

I wouldn't be concerned about the money situation at Williams
(Sm6)(Sm6)(Sm6)
Of course not. As long as long we make no spare parts, retire both cars after 5 laps, find another paying cripple to drive and use all the tea bags at least twice . . . it'll be great!!!

Love it....you are spot on!

Re: Are we out of money?
# 33 Max Crashstappen 01 October, 2019 01:37
Quote:
Gavyn
I wouldn't be concerned about the money situation at Williams.

Really ??? I would be, because money has a lot to do with Williams poor performance.

And I could prove this and this is how....Give Williams a massive sponsor that pays them one hundred million dollars per year for the next 5 years and I would pretty much bet my life on it that Williams would move up the grid with a five hundred million dollar sponsor deal.

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