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Will Kubica see out the season?
Discussion started by Andrew Hooper , 15 October, 2019 04:33
Will Kubica see out the season?
Andrew Hooper 15 October, 2019 04:33
Well Japan certainly saw the level of acrimony between Kubica and Williams hit new levels.

Kubica claiming essentially that someone at Williams made a decision to change the new front wing returning to the original one for qualifying despite his view that it had improved the car. This was countered by the team who said that it was never the plan to run the single test front wing in Japan beyond practice and that should have been clear to the drivers.

The whole history of Kubica and Williams in 2019 has been one of him making claims about the level of support that he was getting from the team and that on occasions Russell was getting preferential treatment. I won't bother spelling out the rest as I would think that everyone is aware of the situation as it has developed over the season and have their own views on the situation.

Now its reached these low levels. Where to from now? Is Kubica trying to force the team to sack him or will does he want to quit. Or is it going to be the case that the last four races of the season will see Kubica and the team just try and simply get it over and done with.

For me if his level of distrust with the team has reached such low levels what is the point in them continuing their difficult relationship. I understand that Latifi has achieved the necessary points for his Super Licence to be able to drive. It would be of more value to place Latifi in the car for the last four races in preparation for 2020 rather than continuing with Kubica.

Will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
AlanJones 15 October, 2019 04:35
I truly hope they ditch him. Clown.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Francesc 15 October, 2019 05:37
If he wasn't a paydriver he would already have been dropped during the summer break.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
boro1986willliamsf1 15 October, 2019 06:14
Totally agree Andrew but money talks



100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE A TEAM

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
IanSmithISA 15 October, 2019 06:33
Good morning,

The F2 season is not yet over, the last races at the Yas Marina Circuit are on the 30/Nov and 1/Dec so
Latifi has not scored any points towards his super licence from the results of the 2019 championship as that championship has not yet declared any results.

He could do something really dumb and be excluded from the championship or docked a massive number of points.

Whether the FIA would be prepared to say that is nit picking, he has achieved the objective of the point system and award a super licence based on the results of part of a season is unknown to me.

As to Kubica one thing that we have seen from Williams over the years is that they are very good at getting money from driver and sponsor contracts.

So it seems massively unlikely that they don't have some form of option on Kubica for next season, the option might only be for a reserve/simulator/test driver role whereas Kubica to Racing Point or possibly Haas seems to be an almost done deal according to a lot of the press.

So Williams and Kubica may have to stick together for the races as doing otherwise might entail Williams losing this imagined option and Kubica is contracted to drive (I assume).

Bye

Ian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/10/2019 06:34 by IanSmithISA.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Mehryar 15 October, 2019 08:21
I believe he would stay for reminder of the season cause of his sponsorship paying for it.

But I hope there won't be any "accidentally" mistakes in last 4-5 weekends to destroy the car.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Gunk 15 October, 2019 11:37
Kubica may be dog slow but he's a very safe pair of hands and was clearly upset by this incident. Prior to this race he was already annoyed by the forced retirement at the previous race. One of his goals was to finish every race.

The two worlds of Kubica haters and devotees - even on a normally common sense forum like this one - is far too myopic to see this incident for what it was.

My general comment is as stated before. The whole pay driver route is a recipe for rancour and recrimination where no one is happy. Sirotkin's sponsors were apoplectic, Maldonado left under a cloud blaming the team. When neither side delivers there can be no respite.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Gunk 15 October, 2019 13:04
Quote:
IanSmithISA
Good morning,
Latifi has not scored any points towards his super licence from the results of the 2019 championship as that championship has not yet declared any results.


Don't count your chickens of course. But Latifi seems to have done enough in Russia to get him home. It was looking borderline until then. I believe there is another requirement that he has to finish fourth or higher to qualify for a superlicense. My math is hopeless but it seems improbable that he could be currently demoted to fifth from second in a single race.

That said, if I were Latifi's Dad, I personally wouldn't hand over a red cent to Williams until after pre-season testing.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Mehryar 15 October, 2019 13:18
Regarding Latifi, I read somewhere he needs to be in top5 to take that super license.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
AlanJones 15 October, 2019 15:13
Latifi has done enough to secure at least 5th place. But the SL points will only be awarded after the F2 season has ended. So in effect, Latifi can't join us this season.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Gunk 15 October, 2019 15:32
Quote:
AlanJones
Latifi has done enough to secure at least 5th place. But the SL points will only be awarded after the F2 season has ended. So in effect, Latifi can't join us this season.

Thanks for info guys.

But surely a daft idea to put a rookie in a suspect car in any case. There's barely enough petty cash or spares to get to the end of the season as it is.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Affinity 15 October, 2019 21:34
Let's look at the other side of the argument, shall we? Williams has objectively presented Raghunathan levels of incompetence that season.
- Winter testing failure
- Hilariously slow pace
- Lack of updates
- Shoddy craftsmanship, parts flying off the car by themselves
- No spare parts whatsoever
- Strategy / operational errors resulting in dumb penalties
- Clueless race engineers who get schooled by both drivers

None of these are even debatable, they're just plain facts. Yet so many are intent on calling out Kubica for being mean in interviews. Is he frustrated? Sure, who wouldn't be after such a display of incompetence. The guy brought in a sponsor worth ~10mil to the team, put his reputation on the line, and it turned out to be a complete waste of time and resources. Even despite that, he only openly criticised the team once they reneged on an agreed strategy at the eleventh hour.

Up until Italy / Singapore / Russia I was on the fence considering the equal treatment thing, but I've made my mind on that afterwards. You don't have to, and it's totally fine. However, I encourage you to look at the state of the current cars. Russell complained of terrible brake performance during the Japanese GP, and considered it dangerous enough to warrant retiring altogether. Those same problems have been plaguing Kubica since Baku. The team bolted an 8-month old wing and malfunctioning power steering onto his car before Q. After the shunt in Q, a number of parts on the car were replaced with pre-Germany spec. That's how dire it is. If one of the car crashes - we're probably not showing up to the next GP. Simple as that.

Considering the above, it amuses me that you completely dismiss the possibility of Williams commiting their resources to a single car while neglecting the other one. It has happened many times before, and the team's dire operational situation isn't exactly helping. Why not even entertain the possibility? Even Claire said that "Robert didn't get the tools to show his speed", or something along those lines.

As for sacking Kubica early - I believe Williams is insisting on keeping him as long as they can. The team really needs the cash, and there are no viable replacements. Latifi is at best on the same level, and doesn't even have a superlicence (needs P5 in F2 to get it). And it's not like there are many drivers willing to risk their reputation by driving in a terribly slow car that's falling apart.

This is not a personal attack against any of you. Instead, I just want to highlight, that while Kubica's pace has been worse than George's, Williams itself is on an entirely different level of 'bad'. Every driver would be frustrated in this situation, especially IF he feels he's getting shafted by the team.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Gunk 16 October, 2019 10:29
I happen to agree with some of that, Affinity.

Kubica has been worth every penny of 20m in deflecting criticism away from Williams. The irony being that he’s paid it himself.

That this year’s car was 4 seconds off the pace was known even before it turned wheel. Sirotkin commented on the numbers before he left. You could have put a monkey in the car for the difference it made.

The other great lie is that they didn’t know how slow Kubica was. He was tested against Di Resta, Sirotkin, on special track days and in endless hours in the SIM. They knew everything about him from his sock size to to his eye-blink rate. Andrew Benson documented how much slower than Sirotkin he was.

And come on, you don’t even need diskfulls of data, you’ve only got to look at an ageing one-armed cripple, out of F1 for eight years, to know that any expectation of being on the pace is utterly ludicrous.

The sad fact is that once Markelov senior was put in the slammer, he was the only man left standing with any cash.

Personally, I find Williams part in this somewhat cynical.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Mikef1 16 October, 2019 11:43
Robert Kubica has used multiple chassis, suspension components, sets fo breaks and engines and every possible component on the car for it to be in any way possible that any of those multiple parts are consistently worse than George's. He even through the mid season had a chassis that George used to great effect in Baku.

None of the claims of one car being better than the other are legitimate, nor taken seriously, because many components are repeatedly produced and it would not be cost effective to have a worse pipeline just for Robert's car, it would be cheaper to produce the same designs over and over again. Robert now has the newest of the chassis as it was built for him in Suzuka, was still slower than russell in the race.

What has William's done wrong for him really? Hes been a dick from day one so they haven't had nice things to say in return, he's blamed every ounce of his lack of pace on nothing but the sheer implication that there is a larger conspiracy and uses the negative William's public opinion to great effect. Sure they have built a @#$%& car and will do so again next year, but they haven't been producing one @#$%& car and one supershit car with additional lack of performance. Many people who subscribe to this forget that suspensions, brake housings, aerodynamic pieces are all replaced every 2 to 3 races on the sole grounds of driver safety and performance. Those pieces weaken due to their intense loads.

Edit. He will stay til the end of the season because whatever is said and done, he wants to drive in f1 and the only way he would leave is if Williams had actually broken any obligations they have to him and his sponsors



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/10/2019 11:45 by Mikef1.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Myvatn 16 October, 2019 13:22
Exactly - nobody denies that Williams has been performing (very) poorly this year and that they likely have financial issues, but there are no reasons to believe that one driver is given better equipment.

Also, Williams' poor performance and the resultant understandable frustration for the drivers does not justify Kubica putting up a world-vision tantrum basically because he wasn't given preferential treatment (the new wing).

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
boro1986willliamsf1 16 October, 2019 13:28
Mikef1 some on here don't seem to listen to what you are saying as you use to have inside knowledge on how things are done but they will argue they know better what they have read cheers for you insight by the way



100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE A TEAM

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Mikef1 16 October, 2019 18:36
Quote:
boro1986willliamsf1
Mikef1 some on here don't seem to listen to what you are saying as you use to have inside knowledge on how things are done but they will argue they know better what they have read cheers for you insight by the way

It's not inside knowledge any more. But it is how teams work. It's literally impossible to stretch these components beyond their tolerances, think toro rosso suspension explosion in 2010 or 2011. Every component on both cars has been replaced many many times. Too many times for George's car to always come out on top.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Mehryar 16 October, 2019 18:55
Quote:
Myvatn
Exactly - nobody denies that Williams has been performing (very) poorly this year and that they likely have financial issues, but there are no reasons to believe that one driver is given better equipment.
.

The subject of this thread is something else but since race 3 or 4, it's clear that Robert must be grateful of Williams' pace.If we had a slightly competitive car, something like Alfa, things were more evident about his state and performance.1 second gap these days doesn't mean that much for him as he only loses one place behind George but in those conditions, one car was scoring points and the other one was consistently finishing 20th.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Gunk 16 October, 2019 20:03
Quote:
Mehryar
1 second gap these days doesn't mean that much for him as he only loses one place behind George but in those conditions, one car was scoring points and the other one was consistently finishing 20th.

Well, that just proves something iffy is going on, Mehryar.

He always finishes behind Russell, yet he has scored the only championship point. How does that work?

I'm reminded of Pastor's only win in Spain and the 'trick tyres'. Pastor not only won the race by a country mile, somehow crashing into no-one on the way, but it happened on SFW's birthday.

Moreover, there was an unexplained fire in the garage shortly after the race, and no trace of the 'trick tyres' was ever found.

Have to say, I'm kinda suspicious.

Re: Will Kubica see out the season?
Mehryar 16 October, 2019 22:19
Quote:
Gunk
Well, that just proves something iffy is going on, Mehryar.

It surely proves there's something wrong...He's been out of any kind of open wheel racing for 8season, 3-4 yrs out of racing I think and since then it's been 2 generation of cars comming and going.
Schumacher experience proves how much things can change after only 3yrs and no physical limitations.

Quote:
Gunk
He always finishes behind Russell, yet he has scored the only championship point. How does that work?

In one word : Luck! It was one of very few sessions in whole season where he was infront of George and it proves to be decider in championship standings.What do you want to take out of it?
Infact that's another proof that the team doesn't favor George, it was Germany.They could make a strategy to give the lead to him and they didn't.

Quote:
Gunk
I'm reminded of Pastor's only win in Spain and the 'trick tyres'. Pastor not only won the race by a country mile, somehow crashing into no-one on the way, but it happened on SFW's birthday.

Nice example cause there's never been any serious talk over that win, except some writtings here & there by some jurnos who wanted to fill the pages without any evidence.All of these preferment nonsense is as legit as those empty rumors.

You certainly very well remember that 2012 car was a very fast car before a wrong serie of updates.There's no denying that the car was a podium contender and Pastor was very fast on occasions.It's interesting that you deny the fact that 5 different teams won the first 5 races (nearly 6 in first 7 races with Perez pushing for the win in Malaysia) or 7 different drivers in first 7 races.
In first half of that season tyres offered a serie of unpredictable results before big teams getting over them.Now some still insist on putting their finger on Pastor's win.Change the name of the driver, put Rosberg in that car for example and there was no rumor or question mark for sure.



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