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William's 2020 line up
Discussion started by boro1986willliamsf1 , 28 November, 2019 07:23
William's 2020 line up
boro1986willliamsf1 28 November, 2019 07:23
Worst kept secret has finally been announced Nicholas Latifi it is



100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE A TEAM

Re: William's 2020 line up
Mr Brooksy 28 November, 2019 08:21
Anyone know how much the sponsorship deal is worth for Williams?

Re: William's 2020 line up
Anderis 28 November, 2019 12:29
I bet that Claire Williams would know that.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Mehryar 28 November, 2019 12:40
Good choice! From a 34yrs old rookie who's been out of open wheelers for 8 yrs, we have gone for a driver who's been beaten by "all" of his team mates in every single year, every racing serie.

The only valuable thing about the guy looks to be his sponsorship just like Robert.

Last season we missed Ocon, this year it's Hulk.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: William's 2020 line up
Stuart L 28 November, 2019 13:04
Youíve got to pay the bills Mehyrar!

I hope heís as much cash as Pastor and Williams get close to break even next year but my hunch is they will lose £15M to £20m )on top of what looks like at least a £20m loss for full year 2019/20) next year and their bank will micromanage all the teams decisions like staff hiring, amount of parts produced etc.

So the reality is we need a driver with money. Just be pleased we donít have two pay drivers...reality is the team probably should have them and has taken a huge financial risk (over positives of morale / racing credibility), in not having two pay drivers.

We have a shared passion in wanting Williams to survive and thrive but I think we need pay driver cash rather than chancing not landing corporate big money sponsorship. My belief is Rexona / Unilever expires after this race and thatís another £10m to be found for next year.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Andrew Hooper 28 November, 2019 13:04
Maybe be beaten by his team-mates but he has also beaten them in races. He has shown that he can win races.

Re: William's 2020 line up
AlanJones 28 November, 2019 13:23
I'm about to throw away all my Williams gear.




http://oi60.tinypic.com/24eyh6f.jpg

Re: William's 2020 line up
Francesc 28 November, 2019 13:28
He's probably the worst driver ever to drive for Williams. But we need the money.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Anderis 28 November, 2019 15:50
Quote:
Andrew Hooper
Maybe be beaten by his team-mates but he has also beaten them in races. He has shown that he can win races.
He has won very few races for such a long feeder series career. Only 7 race wins in 8 years, according to wikipedia. Some guys win more in just one season. Before 2019 it was even only 3 race wins in 7 years. Such results should not bring you into consideration for an F1 seat IMO.

I honestly believe he is the least talented driver Williams have had in XXI century. Stroll, Senna, Maldonado, Nakajima etc. all had shown more promise in their pre-F1 careers. I won't be surprised if Latifi turns out to be outpaced by Russell by even bigger margin than Kubica.

Re: William's 2020 line up
dot_com 28 November, 2019 18:09
It is a shame, but unfortunately thatís the position we are in. We had to have income from a driver, Hulkenberg wouldnít drive for us given how bad our cars have been recently, and there are very few options left to us. Surely he canít be further off the pace than Kubica? Perhaps heíll turn out to really take to formula one machinery, especially since heís already so integrated into the team. We can only hope. Of course, if our car is as bad as 2019 then it doesnít really matter who is driving. Sad times!

Re: William's 2020 line up
dot_com 28 November, 2019 18:10
Anyone know if itís a one/two/three year contract?

Re: William's 2020 line up
Mehryar 28 November, 2019 18:11
Quote:
Stuart L
So the reality is we need a driver with money. Just be pleased we donít have two pay drivers...reality is the team probably should have them and has taken a huge financial risk (over positives of morale / racing credibility), in not having two pay drivers.

That's where I'm 100% against you mate.
Looking at last 15 years, bringing in pay drivers has not helped us financially cause of 2 reasons.
1.They cost us valuable prize money.How much money did Nakajima bring? How many points (and thus position in wcc) did he cost us in a competitive car? How many points and positions could we get with a proper line up in 2012? How much money Senna and Pastor brought to the team? How much money did Stroll brought in, how many more points could we get if we had a Massa-level driver in the other car? It's been equal at best so there's no gain in it.

2.Weak line ups drive away the sponsorship more than weak results.It's not a coincidence that when we sign up a good line up in 2014 or when we get a huge talent in 2019, sponsors keep coming despite of terrible results but when we go for Stroll/Sirotkin it doesn't happen.It's a consistent route which is happening.Good drivers with good reputations can attract more chances with sponsors.Easy.

It's hard for me specially as this guy is the first Iranian (half Iranian though and not racing under the flag of his dad but anyway...) to be on the grid and accidentally in my favorite team but reality is too obvious to ignore it "so far"...Hopefully a miracle can happen and he turns to be someone different when racing in F1.Even a Sirotkin kindda driver in him can make me happy.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: William's 2020 line up
j-s 28 November, 2019 19:26
Sadly, he'll probably be better than Kubica. And that's saying something.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Anderis 28 November, 2019 19:31
Quote:
Mehryar
Quote:
Stuart L
So the reality is we need a driver with money. Just be pleased we donít have two pay drivers...reality is the team probably should have them and has taken a huge financial risk (over positives of morale / racing credibility), in not having two pay drivers.

That's where I'm 100% against you mate.
Looking at last 15 years, bringing in pay drivers has not helped us financially cause of 2 reasons.
1.They cost us valuable prize money.How much money did Nakajima bring? How many points (and thus position in wcc) did he cost us in a competitive car? How many points and positions could we get with a proper line up in 2012? How much money Senna and Pastor brought to the team? How much money did Stroll brought in, how many more points could we get if we had a Massa-level driver in the other car? It's been equal at best so there's no gain in it.
Pay drivers money vs prize money has been discussed many times and there's gain in having pay drivers and sometimes, it's huge.

Stroll, for example, didn't even cost us a single position in WCC for 2 years, he was just 3 points behind Massa in 2017, while the next team ahead in WCC was Force India who scored more than twice as many points so not even Hamilton in place of Stroll would allow us to finish higher in WCC.
There's no reason to think 2018 could have been anything other than last in WCC even with two other drivers (maybe something like a Hamilton-Verstappen duo would stand a chance, but we had no chance for anything like that at Williams).

Senna and Maldonado might have costed us 3 positions in WCC in 2012, but those 3 positions were worth around $15m in prize money, whereas these drivers paid us around $55m in total. You create a $40m gap- there's no way independent sponsors attracted by good drivers would have brought that much. I don't think any midfield team even had $40m of independent (not related to drivers or team owners) sponsorship in total at any point after the financial crisis in 2008.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Mehryar 28 November, 2019 20:16
Quote:
Anderis
You create a $40m gap- there's no way independent sponsors attracted by good drivers would have brought that much. I don't think any midfield team even had $40m of independent (not related to drivers or team owners) sponsorship in total at any point after the financial crisis in 2008.

Well, that's not the case for Williams.Looking at 132m budget of 2019, having 15m from Kubica, 44m from FOM, it leaves 73m for sponsors and possibily if there's any money coming from George via Mercedes.Same was about 2018.around 75m was brought in by sponsors, though we had 2 pay drivers who were set to bring around 20m.

So yes, that was quite possible to fill a 40m gap with independent sponsors even if the rumor of 45m payment by Pastor in 2012 was real.That was never confirmed like his 2011 which was less than 30m.

About Stroll, to just check the standing and say ok they scored twice of Williams and Stroll scored near what Massa scored is something that non-f1 fans do.Though I agree that Stroll got lucky with the equipment he had.Racing 2 seasons in a car which was hardly challenged through the season didn't prove how much he could hurt a team.This season on the other hand, shows how much it could worth when there's competition.Scoring less than half of Perez even with a few bad lucks for Sergio and even after 2yrs of experience with Williams.

Same thing about Kubica this season and how he got lucky with the car we had.He brought us 15m and did not affect our wcc position but that was pure luck.You could never know if the car was a midfielder or backmarker when he was joined and if we were in the mix, he could easily cost us a lot more than what he brought in with his pace.

Same with Nakajima too.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: William's 2020 line up
Anderis 28 November, 2019 23:42
Please always tell which currency you're referring to, otherwise it might be confusing.

The "leaked" PDVSA deal with Williams stated that PDVSA would pay just below £30m but that would still translate to around $45-50m at the time.

If we're talking about $, then the 2019 FOM payment for Williams is $60m and not $44m. I've found a source just right know that actually states the Williams budget is 132m in $ and not £, so it looks that you've overestimated non-FOM related income. Btw. not all of these money has to come from sponsors, I guess Williams use some pay-out money from Stroll in their 2019 budget, and there's always an option to overspend, take some debt etc.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Mehryar 28 November, 2019 23:57
Well all the things that I wrote were in $, what you refer to Maldonado's sponsorship money is not difference between currencies.45m $ was "estiminated amount" for "2012" and 30 million was something that I remember was official for "2011".

And the whole story doesn't change that much with what you brought up.Still a 45$ million is very much possible to be filled with independent sponsors as it was done in 2017 and as it is done in 2019 and these sponsors don't join us with likes of Maldonado, Nakajima, Sirotkin, Kubica or Latifi.



http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1095/mehryarsigyo7.gif

Re: William's 2020 line up
ihme 30 November, 2019 09:31
The incredibly talented F2 driver Roy Nissany will get two half-days of testing post Abu Dhabi GP grinning smiley I think we'll be seeing him a lot during fp1's in 2020.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Francesc 30 November, 2019 10:23
That's a new low. Every day passing this team is going down and down. And some still don't want to admit that Williams are nearly bankrupt.

Re: William's 2020 line up
Mehryar 30 November, 2019 19:28
After the feature race in F2, Camara is only 6 points behind Latifi.
Our driver has a good chance to hold his record.



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