Williams F1
FIA announces cost cutting measures
By FIA
December 12 2008
| FIA announces cost cutting measures |
|
The World Motor
Sport Council met in Monaco on 12 December 2008. The following decisions
were taken in regard to the Formula One World Championship. |
 |
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StumbleuponAs there is a clause stating the rev limit will be reduced to 18000 with no retuning some people engines will be affected more than others by this change.
It could be that its all fair or it could be there is a little fix being put in place to ensure Renault has a very good engine next year. Bernie needs a good Spanish performance to get two races filled next year.
Why oh why can the FIA not be seen to be open about these things. Its been obvious for ages Renault and Honda were being allowed to change their engines. If Renault have been able to optimise their engine for 18000 revs they have a great advantage.
For Williams the cost reductions will be excellent I hope they do well next year.
Because of every other matter, they're killing the meaning of this serie: being the fastest and principal of motorsport!
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All in all we should be happy about what is agreed there, specially about engine costs and some other cost reductions as a Willy fan, that Ban on refueling should help racing too.
The allowance for an updated Renault engine is political, I agree. It will make them more competitive and help keep RBR happy. Ferrari will be ok with it all as they are so far behind with KERS they can now look at a standard unit at low cost for 2010. Only Macca (and Force India) seem to have little to enjoy about these changes. What a shock!
We could be looking at a fight between BMW and Renault with us and Macca not far off, while Ferrari tread water for a year.
What I don't get is the extension of engine life to 4 races but the agreement of three races to remain. Is this 4 race idea an aim but with a minimum of 3 races for any specific engine? I suppose that is an interesting interpretation. Also I see no mention of engines for Friday practice other than the 20 per team ruling for the season. MIt makes me think there could be some strange decisions in the latter half of the season if one driver is challenging for a high place and the other is not. So Nico for example might get a new engine more often than Kaz and be allowed to run it harder.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:12:21:25:33 by gpl.
And the one about reducing the race time that really suck to.
Get over it mate... 7 other F1 teams who all know infinitely more than you on the matter have.
I would hate it if they shortened these races.
Thanks for the comment I'm sure you know best. If you care to look you'll see the teams have been turned over many times before. F1 has always been full of conspiracy.
It could have been that Renault were about to walk on the sport if they had not agreed to the engine change and the cost cutting.
It cold be that Flav as a friend of Bernie had been working up to these changes over many months or do you just think the Renault engine guys can rustle up these changes in a few weeks.
Give me a break.
Renault did nothing to their engine, while others did. It was an obvious flaw in 2008 and it has been rectified in agreement with their competitors.
Do you need to know anything else?
This is F1 not the girl guides.
Why F1 wants a standard transmission is not clear particularly as its the one area where F1 technology has clearly benefited road cars.
maybe someone out there has the intimate detail that i am missing here.
My old English teacher used to dislike BS statements. At the tie he calledthem Big Statements, but I now understand what he meant.
I thank you for your English teachers wisdom.. Oh how the word wisdom has devalued.
Can I offer some sage advice.
If Flav tells you he has followed the rules its maybe best to ask him which rules he's talking about, then count your fingers and go check your bank balance. If all of those are ok get really suspicious.
There are so many things in F1 that are kept behind closed doors. You will never know what deal Toyota did with Ferrari when they were caught stealing their designs. You will never know why Max sold Bernie the rights to F1 for a 100 years. You will never know why Charlie Whitting popped down the Renault and accepted the stolen designs they had on their computers of the McLaren for a year had never been looked at or used in any way.
If you don't agree with what I said then feel free to say so but if your going to spout Renault PR statements I may laugh.
knowing ferrari and their penchant for superiority at all costs i doubt that they would have put their hand up if it wasn;t a genuine and well supported idea that needed some rectification. either that or flavio had the negatives!!!
I did try to make that point K1, but our friend swiftly ignored it, then bagged my high school English teacher, haha. Kind of speaks for itself.
I my view, note those words, the FIA gave the teams little option but to accept Renaults request for changes or accept they may have to leave the sport.
If we accept for a moment that Renault had followed the letter of the law on engine freezes and by implication the other teams not they could simply have taken the opportunity this winter to apply the rules in the same way it is suggested other teams have. There would have been no reason Renault would have had to change their engine under the engine unfreeze proposals and agreed by FOTA unless there were other problems.
all creative concepts unless you have any credible sources to support 'your view'.
There were plenty or speculation, from the FIA itself in recent days, that there was another manufacturer close to leaving the sport. Now given that its not going to be McLaren Ferrari BMW or Toyota following their statement they were committed to F1 my 'supposition' is that does not leave many manufacturers to choose from.
Now if you have an alternative idea as to why the teams agreed to the Renault changes then please put it forward. But don't join duffer in feeling the need to try and suggest that my conjecture is not allowed. F1 is and always has been a Machiavellian web of deals and double crossings.
to assume that there was an element of, dare i say, blackmail, coming into the equation is stretching it a bit without having anything concrete to go on.
most of the time all we, as posters, can do is make educated guesses given the known facts as they are presented. what i do know is that renault/briatore has made a case for an engine upgrade to match the output of those with whom he competes. they agreed, for whatever reason. not only did the teams agree but so did the FIA.
knowing that the philanthropic attitudes of all competitors when it come to conceding even a tenth/sec is most likey ZIP then all i can say with any confidence is that they, renault, must have had a convincing case. it has absolutely no connection with renault PR.
Williams and proud of it.
yes, the car improved out of sight in the second half and we are all aware of that. my understanding of what the reason for that was what was simply stated , it was down to aero and tyres.
to further analyse your comments, then if the renault egine did get a substantial mid season tweak then why didn't RBR enjoy the same enhanced performance?
I am pleased to see the end of re-fulling. This is long overdue.
Williams and proud of it.
Williams and proud of it.
What I said was as all of Renault's direct competitors have accepted the Renault upgrade, most likely with as K1 says, convincing technical data and evidence. I might add you have never seen, nor will probably ever see this information.
This is enough for me to believe it was at significant disadvantage. To assume it is a bribe or a payoff or whatever is pretty like getting 15 after adding 2 and 2.
2 + 2 = a fantasy world.
As to the 'significant' disadvantage Renault have I'm sure all the above would have welcomed that position if they could have a couple of wins or more wins in BMW's case.
What next will FOTA be offering Toyota a few free points because they have data to show their drivers a bit slow. Perhaps McLaren could ask for a two for one deal and have Hamiltons points counted twice in each GP instead of adding Heki's. Maybe Ferrari could ask for Kimi's results not to be considered if he has an off day.
You stick to believing your view that Flav showed data to prove his disadvantage and the other teams said fine just change it - which happens to be similar to the Renault PR. I'll stick to believing that probably the teams and the FIA were given an ultimatum from Renault that unless they were allowed to improve their engine or they would have to leave the sport.
By the way 4 is the answer you were looking for.
Cynical it may be, but I feel that Renault would not have got the nod for his 'upgrade' if the other manufacturers did not see an even bigger loophole to play with.
Williams and proud of it.
this anomaly has been rectified in agreement with all the teams and the FIA.anything other than this falls into the area of conjecture and without any supporting facts to support the wild and untested theories espoused by some posters there it should lie.
if any sourced data can disprove these facts and my interpretation to be a crock then please post it for my edification, enlightenment and education, which i am sure you will.
Therefore it seems more than fair to speculate Renault need to do something more than tweak their engine. There is no evidence that other teams accept Renault is in an unfair position clearly there is evidence this is not even true given their results toward the end of the year. The only fact is that for some unknown reason the teams were persuaded to allow Renault to make changes to their engine. You want to postulate Renaults statement is true and some of us postulate Renaults statement is false. You want to speculate the teams only agreed to a change because they accepted Renault disadvantage I speculate they did so because Renault threatened to withdraw if they were not allowed to make these changes.
Please if your going to tell other people what they need to accept your version of facts then at least make sure your right.
do you also think that the other teams would allow renault to increase the performance of their engines, OVER AND ABOVE their own!!!
really the further this goes the more ludicrous your suggestions are especially in the case of ferrari and mercedes/maclaren.
Go read a few more books learn a bit more about F1 the corruption the power, the engines, understand just how devious the team principles -including Frank Willaims can be. Then work out you need what other people write a little bit more carefully -oh and don't invent things that people have not said.
The teams for once are in survival mode and now Bernie has a few problems of his own the knifes are out for him.
Were the teams 'intimidated' by Renaults threat to leave. NO. But they were pragmatic enough to know there were dangers of letting them go -yes.
The idea that the teams were considering a Renault engine performance increase 'OVER AND ABOVE the own!' is an invention of you imagination. No one has suggested that for one moment.
as for the accusation that i am a 'schoolkid' really is a boner. if only!!!!
I would agree so stop using flawed logic. You quote a barrister and his understanding for engineering regarding the impossibility of KERS I guess that says it all.
Here's a better quote
I am opposed to the laying down of rules or conditions to be observed in the construction of bridges lest the progress of improvement tomorrow might be embarrassed or shackled by recording or registering as law the prejudices or errors of today.
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