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I wonder how much time is gained with a "significant step" a half second would be nice, more likely a quarter of a second.

More likely 8 tenths.

Francesc amen to that.If we gain 8 tenths we ll be in touch with the front.Come on Williams.!!We want a podium.

McLaren fitted a RedBull style exhaust for Melbourne, and from looking like they were seconds off the pace in testing, they went to a situation where they were one damaged floor off pushing for a victory.

Considering Williams were starting from a higher baseline than McLaren (ie, faster in winter testing, pre-exhaust), it is conceivable that Williams will leapfrog back in front of McLaren in Shanghai- (everything else being equal).

So when every team, except Renault perhaps, adopts the RBR layout we're back where we started...

I've become such a devil's advocate.

HaHa- true enough, if everyone does the job just as well as Williams. However, McLaren RedBull and Ferrari are already exploiting this 5mm loophole I believe, and Renault are unlikely to reroute their own layout, so that gives Williams a free hit on 4 teams that were faster in Melbourne...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:29:17:10:47 by crusty_bread.

I hope you are spot on, Crusty... for our sake!

I am trying to dig up some technical discussion on RBR's exhaust as it appears, it didn't get as much notoriety as Renault's more complicated front exiting exhaust.

In the first link, it appears Sam is on it already.
Can he get it out in time?


Here is:

2011 Exhaust & Diffuser Basis per Scarbs


2011 RBR Exhaust Details v1

2011 RBR Exhaust Details modv2

2011 McLaren Exhaust Copy

2011 Ferrari Exhaust Copy

vs.

2010 RBR Exhaust Details

2010 RBR Exhaust Details Modv2

2010 Williams Exhaust Copy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:29:18:26:46 by Bond.

Quote:

Bond
I am trying to dig up some technical discussion on RBR's exhaust as it appears, it didn't get as much notoriety as Renault's more complicated front exiting exhaust.
In the first link, it appears Sam is on it already.
Can he get it out in time?


Here is:

2011 Exhaust & Diffuser Basis per Scarbs


2011 RBR Exhaust Details v1

2011 RBR Exhaust Details modv2

2011 McLaren Exhaust Copy

2011 Ferrari Exhaust Copy

vs.

2010 RBR Exhaust Details

2010 RBR Exhaust Details Modv2

2010 Williams Exhaust Copy

Looking at that, what's the difference between Ferrari's solution and the one on the FW33? Aren't the exhausts positioned exactly the same?

E: Found this: [scarbsf1.wordpress.com]

It seems the solution pictured @ formula1.com is the old Ferrari solution.



Petrov celebrating the new AEROFLOT sponsorhip by showcasing the latest Russian advance in aerospace engineering: The Flying R31B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:29:18:33:47 by A.Fant.

Quote:

crusty_bread
HaHa- true enough, if everyone does the job just as well as Williams. However, McLaren RedBull and Ferrari are already exploiting this 5mm loophole I believe, and Renault are unlikely to reroute their own layout, so that gives Williams a free hit on 4 teams that were faster in Melbourne...

Not 5 mm, but 5 cm. The exhaust would need to be very small! hehe

This is great news!

To have a Williams fighting with Macca and Redbull would be amazing - there is hope for this season yet

Quote:

A.Fant

Quote:

Bond
I am trying to dig up some technical discussion on RBR's exhaust as it appears, it didn't get as much notoriety as Renault's more complicated front exiting exhaust.
In the first link, it appears Sam is on it already.
Can he get it out in time?


Here is:

2011 Exhaust & Diffuser Basis per Scarbs


2011 RBR Exhaust Details v1

2011 RBR Exhaust Details modv2

2011 McLaren Exhaust Copy

2011 Ferrari Exhaust Copy

vs.

2010 RBR Exhaust Details

2010 RBR Exhaust Details Modv2

2010 Williams Exhaust Copy

Looking at that, what's the difference between Ferrari's solution and the one on the FW33? Aren't the exhausts positioned exactly the same?

E: Found this: [scarbsf1.wordpress.com]

It seems the solution pictured @ formula1.com is the old Ferrari solution.

Not sure what picture you are looking at, but as far I can i see on the FW33 this year - it appears our exhaust is still flowing out the lower rear sidepod side in front of the rear tires:






The update would be one that essentially shoot exhaust flow underneath the outer sides of the diffuser via an exhaust solution that is practically mounted on the bottom rear floor outer edges (see Ferrari solution in yellow below):



What Ferrari exhaust looks like:


Please correct me if I am mistaken!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:29:19:09:54 by Bond.

Quote:

rmn
This is great news!
To have a Williams fighting with Macca and Redbull would be amazing - there is hope for this season yet

I don't think that new exhaust would be enough for that, with yet to see the true order at a more normal track, I would say with the blown diffuser we can be as fast as Renault and Ferrari. I will be more than happy if we're the 3rd fastest team.

quite right Francesc.The bulls are aliens.
But Renault and Ferrari can be caught.

I was getting at this pic from F1.com


Which is basically the same as Williams current setup.

Then I found Scarb's article and realized that it was an old solution in the first pic.



Petrov celebrating the new AEROFLOT sponsorhip by showcasing the latest Russian advance in aerospace engineering: The Flying R31B.

I'm not an engineer, but it looks like a relatively simple tweak (in F1 terms) in re-routing the exhaust towards the rear wheels.

Copying our gearbox and rear end is another matter.

Hopefully both elements put together work wonders... if the transmission can be de-bugged it could prove to be a good package.

So long as we understand the science and do not wear a new exhaust like a fashion accessory I am happy with it. Too many times we have seen something copied without the understanding behind it. Macca had simplify its exhaust because even with the science it could not make the exhaust work. So not everyone is going to be able to make it work. It is also possible that a team will fry its rear tyres if it gets it wrong.

I hope that it will bring the performance increase that is being spoken about.

Williams and proud of it.

well since we managed to get some good performance out of our solution last year i'm confident the team will do the same in China. Just a shame we don't have the resources to throw at it like Macca. Either way i can't wait until it's up to speed and we are back at the sharp end.

I swear Williams got about 4 mentions in the whole weekend and 3 of them were to do with off's. It was nice to hear Martin Brundle saying he suspected Williams had some 'core pace' but that was it.

Core pace is not a phase that's been associated with team willy for a while. C'on Williams, a big push this year is needed. Strike while the iron is hot etc. I want to see the lights on in Grove 24/7.

Maybe I should go down there with my mega phone and offer some motivational words.

Quote:

pgj
So long as we understand the science and do not wear a new exhaust like a fashion accessory I am happy with it. Too many times we have seen something copied without the understanding behind it. Macca had simplify its exhaust because even with the science it could not make the exhaust work. So not everyone is going to be able to make it work. It is also possible that a team will fry its rear tyres if it gets it wrong.
I hope that it will bring the performance increase that is being spoken about.

+1.

I think the criticism of SM & Williams in the recent past has been not developing fast enough.

From my point of view, it is precisely what you posted & that's why we are a true engineering firm & not like HRT.

I wll keep my motions in check on this I would like to see it work on the FW 33 first and if it does will it give us the speed we cannot be the only ones working on this keep calm and lets see

100% Williams
WILL SUPPORT WILLIAMS AS LONG AS We HAVE A TEAM To Support

Yes, more complex systems that don't work just add weight.

Incidentally, if you need proof of the panic at McLaren, you need only look to the diffuser which was made in titanium as they didn't have time to do one in Carbon!

Quote:

Bond
I think the criticism of SM & Williams in the recent past has been not developing fast enough.

I have always thought this a bit of a myth, personally. I accept that with Williams' resources, it would be understandable if they fell further behind the likes of RedBull, Mercedes, Ferrari Renault, and McLaren during the course of a season, however, in reality, Williams' development has been great in the seasons where they have maintained focus on the existing car.

In 2006, they abandoned the car
In 2007, they were competitive throughout- 4th in Brazil says it all
In 2008 they abandoned the car
In 2009 they were competitive throughout
In 2010 they started rubbish and improved throughout the year.

So I have never believed as others clearly do, that Williams does not have the capacity to keep up.

In terms of turnaround, Williams' response in 2010 to the EBD was impressive, and this year, they will be beating Sauber by the looks of it.

Does anyone know about Mercedes? are they already running it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:30:14:34:59 by crusty_bread.

2008 was horrendous in terms of consistency, when we ran well we ran very well.

I think the thing about 2010 was we felt like it was a long time while the team got around to the updates that were delayed due to the troublesome engine integration.

Once the ratios were sorted, and we got the fduct we did a lot better. The EBD was a masterstroke given how under pressure we were. At the time it seemed like we were slow but it *worked* when it hit the car. McLaren took as long as we did and i'm pretty sure NEVER got it going properly. Same for Merc. Renault did well with theirs, but look how long it took them to get an f-duct!

It didn't suprise me because Williams and "Enstone F1" are engineering-led. Say what you like about Pat Symonds, but with Bob Bell he had a tight engineering ship there. I've always respected them. Though that is now difficult following Singapore '08 and Lotus.

So looking back, we did well given our budget against the big hitters. I actually don't mind when we get the bits, as long as they work when they arrive.

Quote:

crusty_bread
Does anyone know about Mercedes? are they already running it?

I believe in one of Sam Micheals Q & A's when discussing the EBD he said something along the lines of the team looked at the Renault, Mercedes and Red Bull EBD and decided the Red Bull was the best one to copy. So it would seem Mercedes have their own style diffuser, and i'm yet to read anything about them changing it to copy the Red Bull or Renault.