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My guess is that all trackside and circuit advertising will go plus any sponsorship with an attendance of less than 100,000 such as rugby so we might be lucky, also last year there was a survey taken and pound for pound Williams came out top in the value for money stakes.
I would also suspect that Sir Jackie Stewart will have some say in the matter as well so fingers crossed.
I have got a lot of this wrong over the last two weeks and considering what Adam Parr said on the 24th about our budgets being in place I am suprised we are in this situation.
It would be nice if Sir Frank stated the actual position....

Regards

Peterl

WILLIAMS_FRONT3Q_GR.jpg

It's not just RBS. It's ING too. They're both going to go. I'm thinking this will be RBS last year in F1. Given that the government now owns 75% of the bank itself, it's not going to be able to justify an F1 sponsorship when the bank is losing billions of dollars.

Everybody is on and on about marketing. Marketing in this financial environment is one of the first things cut other than jobs. Typically, they both go at the same time.

Spending 10's of millions of dollars to sponsor a car when you're losing money hand over fist is, sorry to say, senseless. You can do a TV campaign for a fraction of the cost and it last year round...not just 16 times a year for what amounts to 15 or 20 minutes of exposure.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Marketing is the FIRST thing you should be doing in this economic climate. More PR and less advertising...

F1Royal



British Grand Prix: 01, 02, 03, 05, 06, 07, 09, 10
Italian Grand Prix: 09

[www.design-tank.co.uk]

But if RBS break the contract they have to pay those 2 years of the contract, am I right?




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If so RBS are going to have to pay to extract themselves.

F1Royal



British Grand Prix: 01, 02, 03, 05, 06, 07, 09, 10
Italian Grand Prix: 09

[www.design-tank.co.uk]

And I think is worse that your name (RBS) disappear from everywhere beacuse it would take any kind of trust away, from people´s point of view




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not so sure that the RBS sponsorship is in doubt. RBS made a statement last week that it is continuing with its sponsorship, marketing, commitments. It announced that its sponsorship of the Six Nations Rugby tournament was secure. It would be a massive piece of negative marketing if RBS, or any other sponsor, was dragged through the courts in a damaging breach of contract case.

Williams and proud of it.

And I think is worse that your name (RBS) disappear from everywhere beacuse it would take any kind of trust away, from people´s point of view

It's already happened. RBS has nothing left to lose. Their stock dropped 60% overnight when the bailout was announced. I give the odds of RBS being on the car next year at 150 to 1 against.

ING is in the same boat along with Renault. ING is cutting 35% of it's work force and ending all advertising in F1 to try to cut back on expenses. Renault has already taken 3 billion dollars in bail-out money, so odds are good this is their last year as well.

New Toyota chief, Mr. Toyota, has already announced drastic cutbacks when he takes over in June. So, odds are VERY good that this is Toyota's last year in F1 unless they win a number of races at the very least. Even if they do, Toyota will probably pull the plug. They have to to save money.

Marketing is the FIRST thing you should be doing in this economic climate.

Not when it cost you 10's of millions of dollars for what amounts to 5 minutes of coverage every two or three weeks. It simply isn't worth it.

To wit: How long in each race do you actually see a Williams car with the RBS on it? In some cases, not at all. In the best of cases, a few minutes.

For that amount of money, you could actually buy an add spot on every TV station in Europe to run a few times a day and reach 10 times the number of people.

It really is just that simple. Think about it.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

If this was the case when renewing contract was actual then they would fold for sure. However, if they break out of contract they would have to pay and that would be just throwing the money in the wind. They wouldn't get any value for that cost and it could be too big to let go. Also, what would it do to allready shattered public image if they would start getting out of their contractual obligations?



You are too late, we are EVERYWHERE!

However, if they break out of contract they would have to pay and that would be just throwing the money in the wind.

Not really. Nobody signs a contract without an exit clause. Chances are good that when RBS pulls the plug, they'll pay an exit fee that is a fraction of the sponsorship and move on. It's happened many times before.

Also, what would it do to allready shattered public image if they would start getting out of their contractual obligations?

It would improve their reputation by not wasting 10's of millions of dollars on racing that 95% of the world doesn't give a damn about and put it to use paying off the govrenment loans that are going to eat RBS profits for the next two decades at least.

You fail to understand that RBS right now is rock bottom. They couldn't get any lower if they shot the Queen. (God forbid) You also fail to understand that there's literally nothing left of RBS as a private bank. It's now nearly 75% owned by the taxpayers of England. What that means is that the bank operates off of taxpayer dollars.

That's why RBS stock dropped more than 60% in one day. It's nearly worthless now. It doesn't get any worse if you're RBS with one exception: Complete solvency. That can't happen now though because it's almost entirely owned by the government.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

No Tom. The stock dropped by 60% because the ban on short selling finished on the same day. RBS is in a poor position, but it is not a hopeless position. In this case RBS was targeted by the same people that brought down HBOS by short selling.

Williams and proud of it.

Do the history.

Just a few weeks ago, RBS was trading at just over 70 per share. The day after the bail-out was announced, it plummeted to 12. It's still there at close yesterday.

The reason for that is simple: Now that the government owns 75% of the company, investors know full well that the payback of that bail out money is going to suck any and all profits out of the stock for the foreseable future, so everybody jumped ship as fast as they could.

You can't make money when you're paying back the government for billions of dollars with interest.

THAT is what happened and is still happening. That's why the stock is pretty much dead in the water.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:01:26:21:10:06 by Parminio_USA.

That is a very simplistic view.

Williams and proud of it.

Parmino, come on, sponsors aren't paying 10 million dollars for 3 minutes of exposure every two or three weeks. They'd have to be complete idiots to spend like that.

Apparel, print media, cross-selling and advertising, sponsor events, GP hospitality, factory tours, etc. Sponsorship is not just about getting stickers on the car.

That said, if they leave we're in deep... lets hope the stickers are still on the car for the next test...

It's the sad truth. That's why we're in so much trouble over here as well. Everyone talks about the car bail-out. That's nothing. To date, only about 7 billion has been paid out.

Citigroup on the other hand has been given over 100 bn. Bank of America is right there with them. So are a lot of other banks and investment firms that created the whole mess world wide.

They can kiss any profits goodbye for a Looooooooong time. You have to remember, no government is going to give a loan for free, and they sure as hell aren't going to lose money on the deal. They'll make money on it. They have to. Somebody has to pay back the taxpayers eventually and money doesn't get cheaper, it gets more expensive, hence the interest rates.

It's going to take a long damn time for all of us to get out of this one.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Parmino, come on, sponsors aren't paying 10 million dollars for 3 minutes of exposure every two or three weeks. They'd have to be complete idiots to spend like that.

If memory serves, RBS was shelling out just over 9 million per year. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought it was.

Now then...where, other than at the races do you see RBS on the Williams car?

Nowhere other than maybe a car show in England. That's where.

You MIGHT see the RBS logo on a Pit Crew replica shirt as well, if you're lucky enough to run across someone wearing one. I've personally never seen it.

Spending that kind of money for that little TV coverage is not a good idea, especially when RBS has just announced the single largest business loss in British history. Ever.

You can't defend it as a company. No way. It's not a defendable position at all.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Parminio, open up any racing magazine, specialist website, team page, and I bet you'll see the RBS logo pretty clearly. Lots of times. Some even talk about the company on forums! Even if the season is a few months away...

I generally don't watch the races on TV (6am), or see anybody wearing Williams gear (Central America)- but trust me- I know a lot about RBS, Hamleys, Oris, McGregor, etc... all brands that you can't even buy here. I can see them all on my desktop wallpaper, in fact.

Anyhow, that's my point. I'm not defending RBS. I just think your idea of sponsorship value is way off.

Anyhow, that's my point. I'm not defending RBS. I just think your idea of sponsorship value is way off.

The idea is to reach people that don't know about you so that you can interest them in your company.

I'm sorry...but if you don't happen to KNOW F1, KNOW the F1 websites and KNOW the team, you would never, ever, see anything related to RBS based on Williams unless you happened to watch a race and saw the car.

That's what they pay the big bucks for: TO BE ON THE CAR. They could get on a website for free. Contrary to what you think, the car is where the money goes and what it's for.

Why do you think there's been such a stink over air time with the lower teams? It's because their sponsors tune in to a race and get to see their car with their logo on it 2 or 3 times for a fleeting second while they spend the other hour and change watching a Ferrari or McLaren lapping round and round.

That's yet another reason that big sponsorship deals have been so very hard to get. There's no return on the investment. People just don't get to see the car...unless of course you're running up front, and sadly, in Williams case, that isn't going to happen.

Not often, anyway. Certainly not 9 million dollars worth.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

I agree that being on the car is important. being on the driver too. Whatever people see when they tune in/ read the news/ browse an oris watch catalog. Why give a team 9M bucks for them to keep and not let anybody know about it? Obviously it doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry...but if you don't happen to KNOW F1, KNOW the F1 websites and KNOW the team, you would never, ever, see anything related to RBS based on Williams unless you happened to watch a race and saw the car.

There was a picture of a Williams car on the newspaper the other day. Guatemalan newspaper, imagine that. Nice and big RBS logo on the side of the car. Didn't have to watch TV for that one. And I'm sure lots of people who didn't know the company are now at least partially aware that it exists. Even those who won't get up early to watch a GP.

All I'm trying to say is that 9M isn't spent on getting causal fans to lay eyes on your car for 3 minutes 17 times a season. Well... it IS, but that's not the sole purpose behind it or the only medium available for the sponsor.

And is different to have a logo in a Williams car than in the others car, because Williams represents the only private team , different would be if the are sponsoring Mclaren or Ferrari, I think they know that if RBS take off the logo from Williams maybe it wouldn´t see as a positive desicion, I maen they are sponsoring a mediom team not a big corporate team as BMW, Mclaren, Ferrari.
Anyway we don´t really know the situation we are just taking about maybe, should...




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And is different to have a logo in a Williams car than in the others car, because Williams represents the only private team

That's got to be the dumbest comment I've heard in at least a year.

Red Bull
Scuderia Toro Roso
Force India

All three of those, contrary to what you might think, ARE privateer teams, not manufacturers.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

First of all take it easy with your words everybody are free to express their own thoughts and there´s no need to be agressive, and second Red Bull is a team bought by a multimillionaire and Toro Rosso is a Red Bull "B" and the same goes for Force India, different would be if still was Jordan, I was talking about that Williams represent the "old" era of F1 and the same goes if Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell were here.




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some news, I gather RBS would have to pay up the oustanding amount for the two years left, therefore sponsorship stays on the car or we receive the money as a contractural settlement, I think they will settle for keeping it on the car.....

Regards

Peterl

WILLIAMS_FRONT3Q_GR.jpg

That,s that then.

Let,s move on now.

Williams will atill be pushing hard back at base then.

The Six Nations Tournament costs over $20m for a little over six weeks exposure.

Williams and proud of it.

It has been revealed that RBS is set to pay nearly £1bn in bonuses to senior members of staff.

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READ

Williams and proud of it.

PGJ, you beat me to it - the way RBS are going, they aren't a name that we should want to be associated with. Needing millions of pounds of taxpayers' money to keep trading...but paying ridiculous sums in bonuses to staff of what is effectively a failing enterprise. But it's "catch 22" - the UK government can't say well if you continue to pay bonuses, we're withdrawing our support, because too many innocent individuals whose money is with RBS, stand to lose out. RBS is laughing in the faces of both the government and the taxpayer.

Supporters support - fans blow hot and cold...

President Obama just put the kabash on that over here. Banks here were doing the same thing with bail out money, so the President lowered and locked their salary to $500,000 and no cash bonuses. The only bonus they are allowed to recieve is stock options (which are limited) that can not be sold or traded until the government bail out money is paid back in full.

Well done, Mr. President!

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

The British government has a hands off policy with the Banking Sector for a long time now. Since the 70's it has run with virtually no regulation. Decentralising the Bank of England was a very expensive and risky experiment.

It should have been an explicit condition of a bailout that new employment contracts were issued when taxpayer's money was handed over. Not only is the taxpayer preserving bankers employment, we will be paying interest on their bonus payments while they sip their Pina Coladas.

Williams and proud of it.

Trust me, bud...it's not going to be long before the English put a stop to that. They'll take a page from President Obama's book pretty soon I think.

Regards,
Parminio


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Quote:

Parminio_USA
Trust me, bud...it's not going to be long before the English put a stop to that. They'll take a page from President Obama's book pretty soon I think.
Regards,
Parminio

We can only hope. But I think your optimism is misplaced - you underestimate how spineless the British government is.

Supporters support - fans blow hot and cold...

Yes. The Government has said that it will not force contractual changes on bankers. In fact they have appointed bankers to UKFI on big bonus packages.

On one hand government ministers will criticise the Banking Sector and it bonus scheme. On the other hand they endorse big bonuses by announcing a review of banker's bonuses and then announce that it will not be completed until late in the year.

This government is frightened of the Banking Sector. It has allowed banks to absorb interest rate changes without passing them on to customers and it has refused to levy a windfall tax on record profits.

Williams and proud of it.

Here we go again. This is typical of the editorial popularist knee-jerk reaction that British people are used to from newspapers like The Daily Mail and The Express.

I am not suggesting that it is right that taxpayer's money should be spent to fund freebies and parties of the kind that are outlined in the article. The tone of the article should get everyone preaching from their soapboxes espousing moral views on what is being portrayed in the piece.

What the article fails to point out in its spoon feeding of tasty morsels is that this is the way that business operates worldwide, it is the promotion side of globalization. When the British government decided to bail-out the banking sector after a decade and a half of failing to regulate it, it consciously decided not to put conditions on the money. All along, the government said that this was an unfortunate blip and the sector needed tiding over until it got itself sorted out. Pitpass and The Express confuse state-ownership with nationalisation. The state has a majority shareholding in some of the banks which is a very different thing to saying they are nationalised. Banks are being left to operate on a business as usual platform.

I have posted my views on this situation many times over the past few months. Repeatedly, I have said that RBS is not funding Williams, it has chosen to spend its marketing budget in a particular way. Right or wrong, it is doing what its competitors are doing and what the market expects. Taxpayers will only get a return on their money so long as RBS & co maintain their market share or increase it. That will not happen if they slash their marketing budget. Today's piece by Pitpass and The Express is self fulfilling in way. The bad publicity spotlighted by the article will undermine marketing strategies and will probably result in RBS being forced to withdraw from some of its commitments. If it does, it will most probably result in a loss of market share through lost business as a consequence of lost marketing opportunities.

Why it is that Pitpass has chosen to involve itself in such an attack is beyond me. It is a soft and popularist and distorted viewpoint that is being promoted. In a week when RBS announced that £1bn will be paid in bonuses, to blame Williams for the ills of the banking sector is wrong.

If the article was balanced and looked at all sporting sponsorship by the banking sector, or even if it espoused that it was wrong for banks to be involved in banking. But no, it chooses to focus on the Williams RBS link. It is popularist pap that is ill conceived and poorly delivered.

As a Williams supporter, I do not want to see Williams lose income. But I repeat a point that has been made ad nauseum. The British taxpayer will definitely lose money if state owned banks lose market-share. They will also lose money if they lose their top managers because they bleed away to banks that do pay bonuses. If the taxpayer wants to see a return on investment, it needs to avoid meddling in the management process of banks.

This post is not an endorsement of the Banking Sector.


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Williams and proud of it.

ING have made pulic there plan to withdraw from F1 at the end of this year. That leaves Renault looking for a title sponsor and I would suggest puts the team at risk.

I would expect RBS to do the same at the end of their current deal - I'd be suprised to see them end it early but you never know

I think this marks the end of large scale banking sponsorship in F1 - the question is are there any firms with enough cash that can take their place

Pressure on RBS to leave every sport sponsorship:
[www.pitpass.com]

RBS's sponsorship could very well be keeping our boat afloat.

I really hope they continue supporting the team. Otherwise I hope the current contract is rock solid regarding premature departures...

The RBS sponsorship has to be very dodgy. Clearly its been part of an idiots ego trip. Quite how a UK bank thinks it gets so many more customers by sponsoring FI I'm not sure.

Post the Goodwin era things at RBS will change very quickly. Big time sponsorship is for companies selling products you don't need.

Williams deserves credit for being one of the first teams to walk away from cigarette advertising I hope they find someone to replace RBS.

RBS have announced that they intend to cut costs by 1,000,000,000 pounds and shed 20,000 jobs(more than 1/2 of those in the UK)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=RBS%3AUS&sid=adu9twXThim4

Recent comment (this week) from SFW about the RBS sponsorship:

"A contract is a contract," he explained. "Our existing contracts are okay, as with us and RBS."

Supporters support - fans blow hot and cold...

Breaking news
watch the news

So...




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RBS Pulling out of F1 after this season.

[news.bbc.co.uk]

Link above to RBS breaking story

So, the team has the whole season to look for a new big sponsor...not so bad




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not the end of this season: "The partnership, which began in 2005, will conclude when the current contract finishes at the end of the 2010 season."

Yes, I read now on the page, so the team will have RBS 2009 and 2010




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...which gives us two years to find a replacement so it could be worse.

Supporters support - fans blow hot and cold...

Yes sponsorship till the end of 2010 season by which time if an improvement in the banking sector happens then a further smaller deal could be negotiated.
Although one suspects that Williams had a watertight contract with RBS, plus Sir Jackie does a lot of good PR work for them which might be good for them in the coming year so cancellation was not an option.

Peterl

WILLIAMS_FRONT3Q_GR.jpg

As expected, it was too expensive to get out of the deal so they decided to honour it... Well, thank them for all their support during the years.



You are too late, we are EVERYWHERE!

Video interview with SFW on the subject
[news.bbc.co.uk]

Supporters support - fans blow hot and cold...

Really what we expected, till the end of the contract.
Parr says on autosport that they're in advanced negotiations to bring new partners to the team for this season.
Could they announce something tomorrow??? After an announcement like that of RBS comes the announce of a new sponsor... I'm dreaming a bit maybe

Not unexpected and actually given the team some airtime on the news - could be worse!

big sigh of relief. good news, even if it's about a sponsor eventually leaving.

Thanks for the video U-G, did he say that in the 70 and the 80, it was harder in terms of money???




GO TEAM WILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The recent bad publicity made RBS's withdrawal a shoe-in. It is always worrying when an income stream is turned off. This one is no different. All that can be said about the RBS sponsorship is that it was not a lucky one. It was certainly not a successful one.

How sad it is that a bank as large as RBS employing many thousands of people around the world can be brought to the brink of collapse by less than 500 people who still feel that they have earned their bonus payments.

Williams and proud of it.

we're lose RBS in 2010 right? so the logo still on the car in 2009?

Until the end of 2010 season, so RBS appears on the car and payment will be made for this year and next.

Peterl

WILLIAMS_FRONT3Q_GR.jpg

Lets just say that if conditions overall don't improve by 2010, many of us won't be here to comment on anything esp. if F1 goes out of business.

Well I thing this is great news... Two more years is a great outcome from this RBS story


Sir Frank: "It's what we do, we love doing it. It's like oxygen, it fixes you".

Exactly my thoughts...

Regards

Peterl

WILLIAMS_FRONT3Q_GR.jpg

We do have the RBS deal for another two seasons. Let's hope that we can give them some good publicity. A handful of podiums would be a good send off for them.

I do not like James Allen. (I need to justify this knowledge LOL!) I lucked into his blog from a Google when looking for something about our media day today.

He makes a good case for getting off Williams' back. See what you think.

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Williams and proud of it.

Maybe he is not such a bad sort after all! LOL!

Read

Williams and proud of it.