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Yeah?

It's strange that Ross forgot to mention that Mercedes weren't able to offer Nico a "run in a top simulator" either. We do have two driver Ross.

Not to worry though. Nico did OK.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Nico wasn't out for 3 years was he...so no need to mention Nico by Ross as everyone knew what he meant as MS was tyhe one that needed time after 3 years to get to grips with F1 again. You have to find fault with everything don't you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:12:18:12:49 by PharLap.

Well no not really.

Other teams have simulators for both their drivers, [as we will have], and when discussing them they usually mention both drivers not just one.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

I remember reading somewhere quite a few months ago that MS couldn't use the current Mercedes simulator for all of 2010 for some specific reason, whereas Nico could. The new simulator will not have the same issue apparantely.

I think this may be why Ross is saying "Michael didn't have access" rather than "both drivers didn't have access"

Also when you think about it, if that was the case then it was a serious handicap for MS to deal with in 2010, & he is basically in the same situation (simulator wise) in 2011 until the new unit is built, although he will be coming fresh off a year of racing, rather than 3 years of "retirement" :-)

Interesting....

Quote:

DownUnderThunder
I remember reading somewhere quite a few months ago that MS couldn't use the current Mercedes simulator for all of 2010 for some specific reason, whereas Nico could. The new simulator will not have the same issue apparantely.
I think this may be why Ross is saying "Michael didn't have access" rather than "both drivers didn't have access"

Also when you think about it, if that was the case then it was a serious handicap for MS to deal with in 2010, & he is basically in the same situation (simulator wise) in 2011 until the new unit is built, although he will be coming fresh off a year of racing, rather than 3 years of "retirement" :-)

Interesting....

According to Rosberg all the stories in the press are rubbish

All that MS said was also rubbish because Rosberg reckons he figured out how to unleash the potential in the tyres whereas MS could not. Which Ross said he was surprised

It appears MS did not want to compromise his driving style to maximise potential whereas Rosberg did. So if both drivers drive the way they want because the car suits them well enough, will be very interesting

I think Rosberg reckons MS will still be a couple of 10ths slower or on par with him

Get the pop corn out and grab your remotes guys and gals. Ross feels MS will like the W02 a lot more than the W01
Rosberg reckons a lot more work needs to be done on the tyres
MS feels the thyres are not the answer and the car is more relevant

Quote:

f2005

Quote:

DownUnderThunder
I remember reading somewhere quite a few months ago that MS couldn't use the current Mercedes simulator for all of 2010 for some specific reason, whereas Nico could. The new simulator will not have the same issue apparantely.
I think this may be why Ross is saying "Michael didn't have access" rather than "both drivers didn't have access"

Also when you think about it, if that was the case then it was a serious handicap for MS to deal with in 2010, & he is basically in the same situation (simulator wise) in 2011 until the new unit is built, although he will be coming fresh off a year of racing, rather than 3 years of "retirement" :-)

Interesting....

According to Rosberg all the stories in the press are rubbish

All that MS said was also rubbish because Rosberg reckons he figured out how to unleash the potential in the tyres whereas MS could not. Which Ross said he was surprised

It appears MS did not want to compromise his driving style to maximise potential whereas Rosberg did. So if both drivers drive the way they want because the car suits them well enough, will be very interesting

I think Rosberg reckons MS will still be a couple of 10ths slower or on par with him

Get the pop corn out and grab your remotes guys and gals. Ross feels MS will like the W02 a lot more than the W01
Rosberg reckons a lot more work needs to be done on the tyres
MS feels the thyres are not the answer and the car is more relevant

Where did you get all that from lol? I definately did read that point about MS & the simulator, but I cannot remember seeing any of this stuff, is it your personal opinion?

Quote:

DownUnderThunder

Quote:

f2005

Quote:

DownUnderThunder
I remember reading somewhere quite a few months ago that MS couldn't use the current Mercedes simulator for all of 2010 for some specific reason, whereas Nico could. The new simulator will not have the same issue apparantely.
I think this may be why Ross is saying "Michael didn't have access" rather than "both drivers didn't have access"

Also when you think about it, if that was the case then it was a serious handicap for MS to deal with in 2010, & he is basically in the same situation (simulator wise) in 2011 until the new unit is built, although he will be coming fresh off a year of racing, rather than 3 years of "retirement" :-)

Interesting....

According to Rosberg all the stories in the press are rubbish

All that MS said was also rubbish because Rosberg reckons he figured out how to unleash the potential in the tyres whereas MS could not. Which Ross said he was surprised

It appears MS did not want to compromise his driving style to maximise potential whereas Rosberg did. So if both drivers drive the way they want because the car suits them well enough, will be very interesting

I think Rosberg reckons MS will still be a couple of 10ths slower or on par with him

Get the pop corn out and grab your remotes guys and gals. Ross feels MS will like the W02 a lot more than the W01
Rosberg reckons a lot more work needs to be done on the tyres
MS feels the thyres are not the answer and the car is more relevant

Where did you get all that from lol? I definately did read that point about MS & the simulator, but I cannot remember seeing any of this stuff, is it your personal opinion?

In an article on autosport by Edd Straw with Nico


Why were you faster than Michael for most of last year? Was it because of Michael's problem with lack of front-end grip?

A lot of things said in the press are rubbish- for example that he has not been able to cope with front end tyres because if anything I am the one who struggles more with that. The few times that Kazuki Nakajima beat me at Williams was because we were really struggling with the front end of the car and I can't drive with a lot of understeer. But I did a good job in terms of driving and set-up.

Do you expect this pattern to continue in the new season?

I don't know about that, butI have every reason to expect a strong 2011. Whether Michael's level or a few tenths behind, I believe that I will have a strong year.


So both drivers are beating the same drum so it will be settled on track once the season commences

It has been settled on track, we've just had a full season it was called the 2010 season.

Agreed... but I am waiting for the rematch... the sequel looks like it will be far more exciting

Thanks for the info f2005, I missed that one & its interesting to know what NR had to say.

Quote:

In The Pits
It has been settled on track, we've just had a full season it was called the 2010 season.

Funny I was just thinking, without MS's car breaking down at bahrain & MS being crashed from 3rd into 19th position at Melbourne (no fault of his own) , MS would have gone into the 3rd race in front of NR in points, & that after a 3 year absense from the grid...

Even just adding in these 2 races & the points gap would be markedly different, then when we consider MS's fduct problems throughout the middle of the season (confirmed by Merc) + the fact that for the last 3-4 races he was effectively supporting NR trying to catch Massa in the Drivers points standings, & he was in a car with characteristics he HATES........ I'd say he did pretty well really!

Can't wait for next year, hopefully the car is able to put up a fight..


Also, wasn't this topic about a simulator?? How do Pits & Munster ALWAYS manage to turn it into this?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:17:04:13:20 by DownUnderThunder.

Quote:

Also, wasn't this topic about a simulator?? How do Pits & Munster ALWAYS manage to turn it into this?

If you look back up the thread, you will see that it went OT with the message by f2005 beginning with.

Quote:

In an article on autosport by Edd Straw with Nico

Why do we ALWAYS get the blame??

Also, If you want to add car failures into the equation, what about adding Nicos wheel coming off, or Webber taking him out of a Podium position, that would have made the margin even greater.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Quote:

Herman Munster

Quote:

Also, wasn't this topic about a simulator?? How do Pits & Munster ALWAYS manage to turn it into this?

If you look back up the thread, you will see that it went OT with the message by f2005 beginning with.

Quote:

In an article on autosport by Edd Straw with Nico

Why do we ALWAYS get the blame??

Also, If you want to add car failures into the equation, what about adding Nicos wheel coming off, or Webber taking him out of a Podium position, that would have made the margin even greater.

Seeing you have left your manners (if you had any at all)where the sun does not shine... I specifically quoted DUT... Implying it was a personal response opposed to a general post that warrants anyone's response

I can see we are off to a rousing New Years.
I'm hoping our board will flourish and our divisions of opinions will be discussed rationally.
As a monitor I will read each and every comment. I will do my best not to interfere nor stifle the process, but please think before you post.
I gave out a public warning to two members, but that wasn't meant as a free ticket to gang up and create a volatile atmosphere.
Threads do change directions at times and that's cool, but if possible please make an attempt to stay on topic or feel free to create a new topic that concerns your thoughts.

sessions

Quote:

Herman Munster

Quote:

Also, wasn't this topic about a simulator?? How do Pits & Munster ALWAYS manage to turn it into this?

If you look back up the thread, you will see that it went OT with the message by f2005 beginning with.

Quote:

In an article on autosport by Edd Straw with Nico

Why do we ALWAYS get the blame??

Also, If you want to add car failures into the equation, what about adding Nicos wheel coming off, or Webber taking him out of a Podium position, that would have made the margin even greater.

Lol "Webbo took Nico out from a podium position" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I admire your positive thinking & particular wording that you use to create a false impression :-)

To quote a favourite aussie movie "Tell him he's dreaming!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:18:00:01:58 by DownUnderThunder.

and when mercedes wins the championship, the trophy will go "straight to pool room".

regards tt

Quote:

Lol "Webbo took Nico out from a podium position" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I admire your positive thinking & particular wording that you use to create a false impression :-)

You see you have no confidence in the team you alledge to support. If you had, you would be confident that Nico would have finished on the podium. He had finished on the podium three times already by then.

Whatever, a podium or high point scoring finish would certainly have added to his 142 / 72 thrashing of M Schumacher.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:18:17:09:59 by Herman Munster.

Quote:

Herman Munster

Quote:

Lol "Webbo took Nico out from a podium position" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I admire your positive thinking & particular wording that you use to create a false impression :-)

You see you have no confidence in the team you alledge to support. If you had, you would be confident that Nico would have finished on the podium. He had finished on the podium three times already by then.

Whatever, a podium or high point scoring finish would certainly have added to his 142 / 72 thrashing of M Schumacher.

Lol oh dear the broken record keeps skipping a track & playing the same tune :-)

Its not a matter of confidence in the team, its reality. Also you seem to have missed my point (again).

I seem to have to keep repeating this to you, so here we go again.... I have EVERY confidence in BOTH drivers doing a excellent job next season (which is more than you can say, mr "team support"), & I support BOTH drivers fully. Any points that I have raised over Rosberg's driving history are merely that, points, as he has yet to prove he can handle winning races/leading from the front/pulling out performances of a lifetime when they count/fighting for the lead in the championship etc etc. I've never said (or thought) that he cannot do any of these things, merely that as of yet he hasn't, despite showing some good talent & getting some great results for Mercedes in 2010.

In response to your...ahem... point (lol, can I even call it that?) about me lacking confidence in Mercedes abilities (where did I even say anything close to this, so not true lol) I saw where Nico was when Webbo took him out, & I saw the pace of the 3 poduim finishers in that race, Nico in 3rd that race if he didn't get taken out???? NO chance, that's being realistic, not negative. Nico had finised in 3rd luckily a few times earlier in the season, but I was realistically expecting him to claim 5th at best that race, & that would have been a great effort.

I prefer to keep level headed about f1, whereas you prefer to quote only certain statistics in certain situations to support your theories. I don't feel the need to do this as I am not trying to manipulate any point to make it suit my argument....

Reality check.... 142/72 in a comeback year after 3 years off where there is practically no testing, a totally new type of car that is an understeery pig, with no chance of dialing it out with tuning, a dodgy simulator & a malfunctioning F duct due to Mercedes pushing the envelope with their "passive" system that is still legal for this year (hmmm MS taking the pain for the good of the team in the next season? What a selfish guy eh?).. Its a solid job by Nico, but hardly a standout performance, especially when you factor in the retirements each had & the fact that in both Suzuka & Brazil MS gave up points to try & help NR overhaul Massa in the championship (again, what a selfish guy MS is eh?).


Bring on 2011 :-)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:19:03:35:15 by DownUnderThunder.

Well done, I'm sure somewhere in that lengthy but valued contribution you actually made a point.

You talk about broken record, but it wont have gone un-noticed that you tifosi / scumacher fans keep dismissing 2010 as an irrelevance because of - insert an excuse here - because you dont want to hear about it. Even though our two drivers competed fairly in identical cars.

While we look forward to 2011 and our races with the top teams, we do have the results of 2010 to reflect upon. You can't just sweep it under the carpet because you don't like the result, or dismiss it and use 2011 as a re-run of 2010.

Anyway, my old mate, I am looking forward to 2011 with anticipation.



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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:19:16:05:15 by Herman Munster.

Where did I dismiss 2010 as an irrelevance? It is very relevant, indeed i'm sure as 2011 progresses it will become a focal point of your conversation.

Heres why...

I'm looking forward to seeing all the excuses about the "car being tailored to MS etc" (remember, like you guys tried to suggest repeatedly after the Catalunya GP where MS shone & Nico struggled after they changed the wheelbase) once MS has a car with a front end that actually turns. That was funny actually :-)

Here's an interesting video from back in the 90's, it explains how MS can gain his extra speed over another driver, (in this case Johnny Herbert) when the front end is sharp & turning in the way he wants it to (i.e in a way no other driver seems to be able to control).

[">www.youtube.com]

Simple thing is you cannot do this in an understeering car, hence when the car understeers, he only can go as fast as the next guy, but when the car has a front end that is sharp & pointy, then he will make it work through the corner by making tiny steering corrections & adjusting the throttle in a way no other driver seems to be able to emulate.

Now please for the sake of clarity I am NOT saying Nico won't like a car like this every bit as much as Schumacher, just that if the car is like that, MS will shine.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:20:03:47:12 by DownUnderThunder.

Quote:

from back in the 90's

Exactly, years ago in another life... I am looking at his performance in the context of the 21st century..

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Oh yeah, Johnny herbert, he won at silverstone once after Damon and schumacher collided.

Apart from that he didnt really do much in F1, he had a bad crash in the usa and broke his feet which almost ended his career, and was never as fast again. Like Martin Brundle, he was never a top driver, and wasn't much competition for MS. He was only a second choice number two seat filler. No surprises that schumacher was over a second faster than him, most of the top drivers would have been.
Also, as I remember, I dont think they ever bothered to fit traction and launch control to Herbert's car didn't want to risk the FIA finding it I guess.

Anyway, doesn't MS look young there? Wow, how he has changed! But I guess that was way back in the day when he was a young gun like Vettel is in today's modern era. Time passes and we all grow old and slow down, thats the way of the world and theres no stopping it as they say.

Thanks for posting it, I enjoyed seeing it again.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:20:20:23:40 by In The Pits.

I know you guys hear what I am saying, the proof is in the responses :-) Much as you guys want to shoot MS down in flames, I think even the two of you know that he is still a major threat (even if you both flat out refuse to ever admit it lol!) :-)

I'm glad we are all looking forward to 2011, even if it is for very different reasons!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:21:04:05:22 by DownUnderThunder.

Quote:

In the Pits
Anyway, doesn't MS look young there? Wow, how he has changed! But I guess that was way back in the day when he was a young gun like Vettel is in today's modern era. Time passes and we all grow old and slow down, thats the way of the world and theres no stopping it as they say.

I read in the Jan 6 edition of the autosport magazine that he still drove like that in 2006

But the Merc was not able to do the same as he would start fighting the car in slow corners. Also Ross said on several occasions MS was the quicker driver but going into quali he would encounter a problem. It was noted that he disproportionately had more of these problems

What I find interesting is Nico says he likes a strong front tyre too. But not for the same reason

MS needs it to use throttle and braking to control the front of the car which makes it look like the car will crash from the perspective of the cars following him

So that is why 2011 will be interesting to see which of our drivers was talking too much during the break

I agree 2011 will be good. In the meanwhile we have the 2010 results to reflect upon.

Lets hope the new tyres are good for our team, and if necessary MS learns to adapt his driving style like Nico did.

---------------------------------------------------
Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Herman... Check this [url=http://[www.autosport.com]][/url]

Thanks for posting that. It's good to see that his main "reason" for his 2010 results is out of the way.

Its unfortunate that the article doesn't mention any other drivers but I suppose we are all used to that, at the moment there will be 23 others. Hopefully the revised tyres will suit Nico too, and he can increase his margin over his competition.

"Hopefully the revised tyres will suit Nico too"

from what i've read, that's the way this cookie should crumble.

regards tt

Quote:

turboturtle
"Hopefully the revised tyres will suit Nico too"
from what i've read, that's the way this cookie should crumble.

regards tt

Before the tyre issue becomes folklore, it is important to note that the tyres that were used this year were designed to suit a certain weight characteristic taking into account KERS and full tanks. KERS were abolished

Quote:

F1fanatic site
KERS and tyre changes
The 15kg minimum weight increase is designed to encourage more drivers to use KERS. Already this year we have seen taller, heavier drivers like Robert Kubica not using KERS because it reduced his ability to position ballast where he most wanted it.

Another change not mentioned in the FIA’s revised rules may aid that cause further. Bridgestone are working on a narrower front tyre, which should address a handling imbalance brought about by the return to slick tyres this year. This may make the cars’ sensitivity to ballast less acute.

So if this adjustment to take into account KERS was not done, the tyres argument would be moot

Quote:

Grandprix.com
The relatively weak nature of the current smaller Bridgestone front tyre has also been held up as one reason behind seven times champion Michael Schumacher's relative lack of performance since his return. .
Musing on Schumacher's form in Hungary, Mercedes boss Ross Brawn commented that Nico Rosberg tended to get more out of the tyres when they were marginal and Bridgestone's Hirohide Hamashima has opined that Schumacher's style, which demands a 'pointy' car with a strong front end, would have been better-suited to last year's larger front tyre which prompted more of an oversteer handling characteristic..

Link

Based on Hamashima's statement, it is my opinion that MS came back thinking the tyres were going to be the same as last year till the tweak in design was factored in by Bridgestone

On the case of both Mercedes drivers and tyres...MS needs the strong front tyre from a totally different perspective to Nico. No driver in F1 can drives the same way as MS does...even if Nico believes he likes cars with similar characteristics, the set up approach of both drivers in handling the car is totally different.

MS always said he had the car set up for a race as opposed to qualifying

Before Bahrain, he also said he had not done any quick laps whereas Nico had. Nico was more confident about the season whereas MS was more negative

Looking at all those facts, 2010 was a compromise season for Merc

Yeah yeah, we know what his excuse was, how could we forget?

It was all down to the tyres, they just didn't work for him, that's why he only scored half his mediocre team mates points. We all know he's going to win the WDC in 2011, and prove you right.

Quote:

In The Pits
Yeah yeah, we know what his excuse was, how could we forget?
It was all down to the tyres, they just didn't work for him, that's why he only scored half his mediocre team mates points. We all know he's going to win the WDC in 2011, and prove you right.

Personally I do not care whether he wins or not but I am sure his input towards car set up and design is what Merc employed him for

Point out a driver on the current grid that helped build a team from nothing. Alonso only goes to teams that can give him the results now. Hamilton is a remote controlled driver who has the team decide for him. Button from his BAR days I would say has not done it before. Vettel is too young to even contemplate such a feat. Nico was the practice WDC champion when he was at Williams but never steered the team in the right direction in terms of quali That leaves Schumacher

f2005,

Hey, I hope you do care if he wins or not, after all he seems to be your favourite, no need to not cheer on his behave.
I think when you said,"No driver in F1 can drive the same way as MS does...." Did you not mean, no driver in F1 drives the same as MS ?
They for sure all drive differently from each other,
Thank the stars, or they may as will put a robot or just a computer behind the wheel.

sessions

Quote:

I am sure his input towards car set up and design is what Merc employed him for

They must be really disapointed then. To push car development the driver needs to be on the edge, he was nowhere near.

As for your favourite team ferrari, he didnt build that team, it was down to Ross JT, and mostly a full time testing team developing rory byrnes brilliant design. Throw in a big dose of FIA help and there you go.

Quote:

In The Pits

Quote:

I am sure his input towards car set up and design is what Merc employed him for

They must be really disapointed then. To push car development the driver needs to be on the edge, he was nowhere near.

As for your favourite team ferrari, he didnt build that team, it was down to Ross JT, and mostly a full time testing team developing rory byrnes brilliant design. Throw in a big dose of FIA help and there you go.

A very ignorant post from someone like you

Even Jackie Stewart acclaims his biggest achievement as getting the people he needed into Ferrari... Until then we had Italians doing everything

So do you really think Rosberg is leading in car development lol

Everyone seems to forget the word TEAM, it's everyone working together towards the same goal. I'm sure Nico contributes to development as well, but I do feel Michael's experience makes up a large portion of the input.
Pits it's difficult to be on the edge if the car is incapable of getting to the edge. Granted Nico seemed to get more out of it, but it was still seconds slower than those ahead of them.
If the 2011 car offers more then we'll see the real test of who's who in getting the most out it.
To me the verdict is out until a team has a performing car which allows the cream to rise to the top.
I'll be happy if either driver is challenging the front runners. Both would be the ideal scenario.

sessions

Quote:

sessions
Everyone seems to forget the word TEAM, it's everyone working together towards the same goal. I'm sure Nico contributes to development as well, but I do feel Michael's experience makes up a large portion of the input.
Pits it's difficult to be on the edge if the car is incapable of getting to the edge. Granted Nico seemed to get more out of it, but it was still seconds slower than those ahead of them.
If the 2011 car offers more then we'll see the real test of who's who in getting the most out it.
To me the verdict is out until a team has a performing car which allows the cream to rise to the top.
I'll be happy if either driver is challenging the front runners. Both would be the ideal scenario.

sessions

Sessions, this is an absolutely spot on post

You can beat your team mate but if the car is far from the edge, it is a moot exercise

Haug made comments to the effect that in race terms, the merc was not far from the speed of the top cars, but the reality was Nico's pace matched them when they were in fuel save mode and not running flat out

PERSONALLY, I will be happy for either driver as long as the car is competitive

I saw 2010 as a Merc experiment. The car was a tank and Michael tried to do the impossible and failed. Nico played safe and succeeded. It was only towards the end that Michael started getting results when he drove the car within it's limits. All the other times he tried to drive it like his Ferrari's lol

Quote:

In The Pits
Oh yeah, Johnny herbert, he won at silverstone once after Damon and schumacher collided.
Apart from that he didnt really do much in F1, he had a bad crash in the usa and broke his feet which almost ended his career, and was never as fast again.

Small correction.
Herbert won the British GP as you say and he also won the european GP when driving for Stewart.
He actually broke his feet in a formula 3 race at Brands Hatch which I believe is in the UK.
I think your suggestion that he did nothing other than that whilst reasonably accurate somewhat belittles his 2GP wins, after all he may have inherited the lead in both races but he did have to be up the front to benefit from others mistakes and there are plenty of drivers who like Nico, havent even won one yet.