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Quote:

MT
"We can only negotiate with sponsors, partners and drivers, if our place is certain"

You should have told that all those other greedy doctors from BMW board BEFORE they pull the plug, and rejected Sauber's offer.

Half a year ago I thought the Honda left F1 in worst possible way, leaving the winning car to others.

Now comparing to BMW I take hat off to Honda. They secured the jobs and they let the project to bring success, even if under different name.

BMW engineered its exit the way to f*ck everybody the most: team personel, drivers, FOTA...

Agreed, what a disastrous way of pulling out...
If Concorde Agreement was in place it would be so much different for the team...

[www.autosport.com]

Norbert Haug on this news:

Norbert Haug has said "How dare Campos, as a new team with no track record whatsoever, vote against Sauber,"



Red Bull is against the 14th entry too: [www.auto-motor-und-sport.de]

Oh, well, weren't they using customer cars team with Toro Rosso when they were supposed to? humm...

Racing against the machine!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:10:06:18:13:58 by Raid Phoenix.

personally i don't think that a team should have a right to veto, untill they compete in a f1 race.

regards tt

Quote:

turboturtle
personally i don't think that a team should have a right to veto, untill they compete in a f1 race.
regards tt

Spot on. These way Bernie could manipulate all decisions by adding some fake teams just push his agenda.

any team which has a place on the 2010 grid and is therefore investing heavily in the 2010 season has just as much right as anyone else to have a say on the 2010 season rules.

How "big" they are, or whether they are involved in the 2009 season matters not a jot, as they are voting regarding 2010.

Ferrari need to learn that small teams cannot be expected to just put up and shut up simply because they want to make a fast buck out of Sauber.

in other words, a new team may veto a regulation, and then never turn up for a race...

regards tt

I can understand not giving a new team a say in forming the regulations. However, once the regulations are set and a team agrees to enter the championship based on those regulations, then they should have just as much say if those regulations are going to be ignored, which is the case in allowing a 14th team. I realize we are a long way out from the start of the season, but what if the FIA wanted to change a regulation two weeks before the first GP. At that point all of the teams would have cars built and tested, so what would make one team more worthy of a veto than another?

Having said that, I would much rather have Sauber on the 2010 grid than Manor or Lotus. In fact, I really don't like the idea of some Malaysian team with no connection at all to Colin Chapman's team entering cars with that iconic name.

i believe that capacity to veto should be erned. the new teams should have the right to vote, but not to veto.

regards tt

tt, decisions must be taken unanimously, which means if at least one entity is against something, then it effectively turns into a veto.

2008 Prediction Champion

barteks
you know as well as i do what havoc liberum veto caused in our history. that is why i am not a fan of the system in the first place. the unanimus decision affirmation that changes any vote into a potential veto is just as bad.

divide and rule, comes to mind....

still, a potential team (untill they race, they are just that) blocking entry of an established team (possibly with a view to sell the spot later) looks like profiteering. simply put, the current system is wide open to abuse.

regards tt

ps oddly enough i don't have a problem with williams protesting (though i may not be happy about it)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:10:10:02:38:01 by turboturtle.

Frank in his wisdom has been rather regular in going against the grain with many issues over the years. I feel for Peter and all of Hinwil if they get left out.
Just doesn't seem fair, somehow.

sessions

Aha, Williams catched, what an hypocrite, read: [www.f1complete.com]



Racing against the machine!

I was initially optimistic, but more and more it seems as though not only has BMW abandoned Sauber, but so have FOTA and FIA. It's unfourtunate, because it didn't need to happen. It's not like Super Aguri, or Arrows, or many other teams in the 1990s that ran out of money, or didn't have a proper factory, or didn't have results, etc. I have a bad feeling about the future of Sauber, mostly because it didn't need to happen. That's the saddedst part. F1 needs MORE people like Peter Sauber, not fewer.

Welcome to the Piranha Club... And seriously you can't blame sir FW for trying to secure his team's future. BMW board are the ones who screwed up.

I'm totally fed up with BMW failures...

Report - Williams eyes BMW-Sauber sponsor Petronas
Racing series F1
Date 2009-10-09

By Motorsport.com/GMM

Williams is reportedly opposed to BMW-Sauber receiving a guaranteed 14th team entry for 2010 because it wants to secure the Swiss outfit's major long-term Malaysian sponsor Petronas.

Team chief Sir Frank Williams has said publicly that he opposes the expansion of the grid from 26 to 28 cars because the latter is too high a number, while not enough is known about BMW-Sauber's new mysterious owners Qadbak.

But Germany's Auto Motor und Sport said the Grove based team's resistance is actually about money, with the Malaysian oil company Petronas wanting to stay in Formula One beyond 2009.

Interestingly, the German magazine said Petronas would prefer to stay with BMW-Sauber rather than switch to the new Malaysian-owned Lotus team.

Should BMW-Sauber drop off the grid, Williams would therefore be near the top of the list for Petronas as an established and reliable team with an affordable sponsorship rate card.

The report coincides with a newspaper article in Britain's Daily Telegraph claiming that Williams' finances "are far from pole position".

In 2010, the team will no longer have the Royal Bank of Scotland's $20m sponsorship, having already lost the $30m deal of the failed Icelandic retail group Baugur.

Ecclestone: "Not all new teams will debut"


It has also been suggested that some of the new teams are now sitting tight so that their places might be bought by more serious entrants. This would be one possible explanation for Campos' opposition to allowing a 14th confirmed entry for the BMW-Sauber team for 2010.

[www.f1complete.com]

BMW still pushing to make it to the grid and convince Williams, Campos and other team's likely to make it to the 2010 grid:

LINK Article



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:10:16:16:19:37 by BMWF1Talk.

Let's stop saying "BMW is pushing" It's Sauber and Theisen.

Agreed.

Let's not make Frank the bad guy in all of this, as Mario is attempting to do by putting public pressure on him. This is quite foolhardy on his part and Sauber may have to pay for it.

I hope that Frank does change his position and agrees to expand the grid to 28 cars, but remember he has no legal or moral obligation to do so. If he does, it will only be out of pure altruism. It's Frank's job to maximize the chances of survival for his team, which lives on a year by year basis in terms of budgets. If Suaber is able to have all their ducks in a row early on, they will have a good jump on winter testing, finding sponsors, evaluating drivers, etc and will continue to present a direct threat to Williams. SFW probably wants Sauber to have to wait for another team to drop out so it will put them behind and take at least one season to find their footing again. It will be a significant personal sacrifice if SFW were to acquiesce.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:10:18:01:28:45 by KineticKid.

As for Williams I am not going to be hard on them. If he is trying to pull Petronas sponsorhip I don't blame him neither. Where else he is to find the money. He does not have a corporate budgets behind him.

Teh latest stories are that Campos is to bring Bruno Senna with massive Brazilian sponsorhip. Petrobras is one of them. So It's a direct loss for Williams. No wonder they are chasing the replacement in form of Petronas.

But Peter Sauber has long term links with Malaysian company. Let's not forget Petronas was paying Ferrari engine bills for Sauber for many, many years pre-BMW era.

The hope is now with Barrichello winning WDC. If he would bring Number 1 car label to Williams car Petrobras might not be willing to part Williams. Who knows, they might sponsor two teams Campos and Williams. They have enough money. They just discovered few months ago world's biggest oil reserves near Brasil's Atlantic coast :-)

Maybe BE will make a financial deal with Williams to back off.