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Heidfeld-Kobayashi wouldn't the worst scenario, would it?

He should go with Trulli & Heidfeld IMHO. Those are two best drivers on the market apart from Kimi.

EDIT: No Mario Theissen in Sauber team!

[www.motorsport-aktuell.com]

YES, YES, YES! Perfect decision, now it's time to fire Rampf and hire Willis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:28:12:55:15 by soarq.

Trulli!!!

Heidfeld, obviously. Then build a car that can win, something that Heidfeld has rarely had his hands on. Not Trulli: too short an attention span.

Of course Heidfeld and Trulli. Those two are clearly top drivers in Formula 1. I think Sauber is much better than Lotus, and Jarno Trulli deserve a good car. Let's hope for Heidfeld and Trulli.

I would rather have Kovalainen over Trulli.

Heidfeld and Kovalainen would make a good pair...

even better would be young Marcus Ericsson,,, but that won´t happen!


2006 and 2007 Prediction Champion

True, Trulli's attention span only last through qualifying, then he focuses on how construct the famous TRULLI TRAIN.
I was hoping JV's name would have been included, but I guess Peter kept his little black book. Oh well, it's better to be elsewhere if your not wanted.
The Problem could arise that if Schumacher doesn't go to Mercedes and KR signs a rally deal, Peter may have to kiss Nick good-bye.
It's still up in the air until KR & MS decide.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:28:16:06:58 by sessions.

Here is a thought! What if Mercedes choose Heidfeld, even after Kubica comes on the market in December (which is very possible) then Sauber could get Kubica!

It's a thought but I think Renault will hang in there, but stranger things have happened.

sessions

this a good news... anyway, what i've heard from the interview is Sauber mentioned his shortlist name which are Heidfeld, Trulli, and of course the name that is not being heard clearly is Buemi... but then, i am hoping that Heidfeld will be paired with Klien as Klien have been their test driver and he(Klien) seems to understand or know the characteristic of the on-going F1.09 and perhaps newly F1.10(i supposed the name of their new car for next season)... well, Heidfeld for sure will be Sauber's first choice as all of u here would like it to be... x-) emm....my second choice that maybe going to be Heidfeld partner is Kamui Kobayashi...

Jarno Trulli is clearly better than Marcus Ericsson and he is not only good in qualifying, but is very often on the podium on the race day. Trulli is not train many times and remember when Ayrton Senna had a bad car it was really SENNA TRAIN, but he was anyway one of the best in the history. Here is my list in order:

1. Trulli + Heidfeld
2. Trulli + Kubica
3. Trulli + JV
4. Trulli + Klien
5. Trulli + Kobayashi
6. Trulli + De La Rosa
7. Trulli + Petrov



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:28:16:49:59 by Johan Hasselberg.

Hasselberg,

We got it, you love Trulli. That's cool but Trulli for the amount of time in F1 has pretty poor race results.
How many races verses how many wins ?
He is fast and puts the car near the front often, but somehow fades, oh too regularly.

sessiona

Trulli may not be perfect, but especially if Heidfeld goes to Mercedes, he is easily the best choice for Sauber. He may be inconsistent, but that's better than the rest, who are consistently slow (well, maybe Kobayashi can be given the benefit of doubt here). I personally see nothing in Klien, he got beaten by Coulthard for two years in a row, surely Trulli would do the same with him.

I'm thinking that Sauber will become an efficient low budget team again.

Kobayashi, Petrov for sure come with money. Trulli may come with Toyota money also but that's less likely.

If PDLR had sponsorship money, he would be at Campos.


Why didn't Sauber mention Klien? He's their test driver.

Sauber didn't mention Fisichella either.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:28:21:59:50 by racer-fan.

Quote:

sessions
Hasselberg,
We got it, you love Trulli. That's cool but Trulli for the amount of time in F1 has pretty poor race results.
How many races verses how many wins ?
He is fast and puts the car near the front often, but somehow fades, oh too regularly.

sessiona

How many victories and pouls have Haidfeld? Why you think, what it is better than Trulli?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:28:22:01:25 by zet.

Zet,

I Think they are about the same with the exception of two things.

One: Trulli has had a win and Nick doesn't.

Two: Trulli has had better cars over his career than Nick.

I'll check the stats and edit.

sessions

PS. Trulli 11 podiums Nick 12 podiums
points-246.5------------219

wins 1----------------0
poles 4----------------1
races 219--------------170
entered 1997------------2000



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:00:59:26 by sessions.

Good job sessions !!

Go Nick, Go Jarno

Ps. Jensen Button, Nick Heidfeld and Jarno Trulli is my favorite drivers in Formula 1.

Johan

Johan,

I like your enthusiasm, wish all our posters including myself would get into it the way you do more often. Hope all your favourites get good seats and do well next season.

sessions

Klien was pretty closely matched vs Coulthard in terms of pace, I must say- and for his lack of experience, that was pretty impressive. If you look at how Webber stacked up vs Coulthard in their first season together, Webber struggled too. I think Klien is a better bet that Luizzi- who has a race seat with Force India already. I think Klien deserves a seat with Sauber alongside either Trulli or Heidfeld- dependant on their availability. (although I am desperatly hoping Heidfeld isnt gazzumped to the Mercedes drive by yet another overrated teammate!)

Quote:

sessions
Zet,

Two: Trulli has had better cars over his career than Nick.

thanks,
But, I do not think so.
Nick had the car which struggled for the championship. And his teammate had a victory in 2008.
In this season Nick has received 4 podiums and 60 points.
Trulli had no such car never.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:12:36:11 by zet.

hmmm.....in experience way, i supposed Trulli have it more than Heidfeld... anyway, i don't really know about their statistics or whatever things that related to their performances especially both Trulli and Heidfeld... Sauber did mentioned that his shortlisted name was Heidfeld and the 2nd name was Trulli... but then, that was just a shortlisted...and it is for sure in random order which came across Sauber's mind... some would say that if the name came across people's mind, that probably their choice or option... however, we still don't really know what will happened after the name appear and we are going to re-think about that... am i right? plus, they will be meeting among members in the team and that will surely be a final decision and then, should we know drivers for Sauber's F1 Team for next season...

I never imagined I would end up supporting a team that Trulli drives for, ahhhh!....lol

If Heidfeld doesn't go to Mercedes, then definitely he is the best option. As his partner Trulli would be good, but given his trains during the race, I'd rather have De la Rosa (who has more development skills and is more fun to watch on races).

Petrov or Kobayashi would be refreshing, but would be a handicap at the beginning of the season and car testing/development.

Kovalainen is good, but he was a bit underwhelming at Mclaren (I had higher hopes for him). Klien knows the team, but hasn't raced for a while, and not much testing either.

FIA to announce Sauber entry tomorrow

Racing against the machine!

i am still hoping that Heidfeld will be paired with Klien or Kobayashi next season... but then, all we can do is just wait and see... ;-)

Quote:

Raid Phoenix
I never imagined I would end up supporting a team that Trulli drives for, ahhhh!....lol

Funny how Trulli is so underrated that some people are even "allergic" to seeing him in "their" team.

With the exception of Heidfeld, Trulli would beat everyone else over a full season from that list. And generally - among drivers without contract so far, Trulli is easily at least second best available option on the market besides/after Heidfeld. Some guys here ought to learn to give the man some respect instead of a ridiculous and biased attitude of "OMG Trulli train, oh noooo, please not this useless driver!!!!"

I know I would prefer a driver, who qualifies 4th and finishes 6th instead of a driver, who qualifies 10th and finishes 8th. But if you prefer the latter, then it's your unefficient choice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:15:47:32 by rear wing.

hmmm.... it possibly seems that Trulli will be hired by Lotus F1 team as i assured that all of you here have heard about it... and they(Lotus F1) will announced their drivers within next month and possibly next week... we'll just have to see next week which will start tomorrow...

Good point. Would you rather have a driver who qualifies and goes backwards or one who qualifies and goes forward ?

Forget the number of (made up positions) because they will constantly change each and every race.

Back to the question : That should tell you who's race craft is better. For sure it's the guy who moves forward rather than backwards.
Plus the consistency in the Heidfeld/ Trulli question is very consistent over both their careers,

Hiedfeld cosistently forward.
Trulli consistently backward. (The stats confirm it.)

Lastly. Cars. When Kubica got his win driving the best both he and Nick ever drove, who was second right behind him ?

Trulli had the same car as Alonso at Renault, we know the results of that without going any farther.
If Trulli can make the car (Toyota or Renault) go fast enough during qualifying why is it so slow in the race ?

Answer: Poor race craft. (Hence, the Train)

SORRY, but- Nick is considerably a better first choice over Yarno.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:16:57:24 by sessions.

Quote:

sessions
Good point. Would you rather have a driver who qualifies and goes backwards or one who qualifies and goes forward ?
Forget the number of (made up positions) because they will constantly change each and every race.

Back to the question : That should tell you who's race craft is better. For sure it's the guy who moves forward rather than backwards.
Plus the consistency in the Heidfeld/ Trulli question is very consistent over both their careers,

Hiedfeld cosistently forward.
Trulli consistently backward. (The stats confirm it.)

Lastly. Cars. When Kubica got his win driving the best both he and Nick ever drove, who was second right behind him ?

Trulli had the same car as Alonso at Renault, we know the results of that without going any farther.
If Trulli can make the car (Toyota or Renault) go fast enough during qualifying why is it so slow in the race ?

Answer: Poor race craft. (Hence, the Train)

SORRY, but- Nick is considerably a better first choice over Yarno.

sessions

Trulli had the best car in career in 2004 and Trulli has outstripped Alonso on points.
Trulli had a victory (2 podiums) and 2 poles in 2004, Alonso did not have any victories, 1 poles and 2 podiums. But also and then Renault did not struggle for the championship.
And not: "Poor race craft." it is: "simple the best qualification!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:18:18:41 by zet.

Zet, are you dreaming ?

In 2004 Alonso in his second season verses Trulli's eight, out scored Yarno 59 points to 46.
Check your facts buckaroo.

sessions

Qulyfing will be even more important next year, and Trulli is best qualifier on the grid. He's best option for Sauber in my list, second best is Nick.

Sessions, Trulli was sacked with 3 races to go and at that time he was leading Alonso by 46-45. And even if we combine both 2003 and 2004, then the final point-score would be 100-79 in Alonso's favour, which in itself isn't a big gap at all.

But in this topic Trulli vs Alonso isn't important, so why debate about that. Even Trulli v Heidfeld isn't important, because Heidfeld is likely to join Mercedes. So it's Trulli versus the rest.

Yeah rear wing I agree it is all pretty moot, but in the end Trulli vs Alonso isn't even worth discussing. History answers that !
Trulli verses all the rest I guess has to remain in the eye of the beholder.
Funny you mention Nick may go to Mercedes, Why not Trulli ?

That leaves the rest of them against Trulli.
I agree he may be one of the best choices but I'll bet if he's chosen at Sauber his results will fashion his past and whom ever his team mate ends up being will do as well and occasionally beat him as Glock did, even if Trulli has years of experience on his side.

sessions

Regarding the German/Swiss interview with Peter .

After having difficulty understanding the the interviewer I can say things are not much more defined than many of us already know.
Peter anticipates approval but is awaiting confirmation as we all are before he can actually move ahead with the next stages such as getting more investors on board, The signing of drivers, and more sponsors.
He really didn't disclose any terms of the purchase of the team nor who future investors may be.
The drivers he mentioned on his short list were recited as he went through those possible in his mind. Whether the list included all his choices or not wasn't dwelled upon in any depth.
He did say not having a starting position is a reason why he can't sign any drivers.
He feels Hinwil because of the the infrastructure bolstered by BMW will offer an advantage which will allow them to move up from last season's finishing position.
All in all the ten minute conversation was tight-lipped and didn't disclose any real new information,

P.S. Peter did mention he does not wish to do it all himself as before which, IMO indicates a team boss will be selected.
No names again were not mentioned


sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:21:39:02 by sessions.

Quote:

sessions
Zet, are you dreaming ?
In 2004 Alonso in his second season verses Trulli's eight, out scored Yarno 59 points to 46.
Check your facts buckaroo.

sessions

When Trulli had left Renault he had 46 points, Alonso had 45.
But Trulli had problems in the second part of a season and the conflict with Flavio.

I think both Heidfeld an Trulli can go to Mercedes, but a little more chance for Heidfeld when he is a german driver. But we have to wait and see about Schumacher. Now about Alonso: Renault was not happy with the situation the first half part of the season 2004 when Trulli scored a lot more points than Alonso. Trulli was hoping to stay at Renault for 2005 and continue drive for the WDC. But a few race later Briatore told him that he was not on the list for a drive in 2005, not even if he got champion 2004. That was really sad for Trulli and he soon was in talk with other teams - one of them Toyota. It was a very strong start of the 2005 season and Trulli took Toyotas first podium ever. Later this year and 2006, 2007, 2008 everything was up and down for Toyota. They changed people in the team and so and so. It was not good for any of the drivers, not for Ralf Schumacher and not for Timo Glock. Anyway, Jarno beat temmates 2007, 2008 and 2009. He also got Toyotas very last podium before the team left F1. What we can say is that Both Trulli and Heidfeld is very strong drivers with a lot more to do in Formula 1. I rate Sauber as the best team for both of them, after Mercedes. I think they (JT and NH) really deserve a good car for 2010.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:30:02:55:07 by Johan Hasselberg.

Johan,
Oh boy, just finished a personal message to Zet and now you say Trulli was beating Alonso badly. Zet informed us when Trilli left he was but one point ahead of Alonso the second year driver verses the eight year veteran Trulli.
I told him I was sorry I made the error of saying Alonso had more points which shows up in the Renault results. Alonso's 59 verses Trulli's 46 in 2004.
Mercedes isn't grooming Trulli, not even close. They want Michael, and if that fails Nick seems to be their next choice.
As I told Zet, history shows Trulli as a good journeyman driver, but surely not a potential WDC and trust me Jarno doesn't have a lot more to do in F1, 2010 may be his last season.
Hey a Nick Trulli team would not a bad team, but is it the best choice to carry two guys who have short futures or to let Nick's consistency and race-craft groom a younger driver so Sauber has future aspirations.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:29:23:04:16 by sessions.

I think we can check how it really was at Renault 2004. Alonso was best in the first race with 6 poins and Trulli scored 2 points. Here is the standings after that (JT vs FL): After two races 6-8. After three races 12-11. After four races: 16-16. After five races 22-21. After six races 32-21. After seven races 37-25. After eight races 37-25. After nine races 42-25. After ten races 46-33. After these ten races Trulli just had a lot of problems and not scored any more points this year. Alonso had a lot better situation at Renault and scored 26 more points on eight races. The last few weeks at Renault wasn't good for Trulli and he was happy to left for Toyota. He is a genuin races and have many times told he is driving for WDC. Remember Nigel Mansell been WDC for the first time at 39 (Williams). Jenson Button had only one victory before he took WDC in 2009. I am happy for both Mansell and Button is WDC and hope Trulli's time will come. Maybe sooner than we are thinking about. Same about Heidfeld. I am sure he can drive for WDC when he got the right team and the right car. If they both will drive for Sauber next year, we have to support them a lot (and of course also if Nick will drive for Mercedes). I think he is a better driver than Rosberg. I really think both NH and JT is two the best drivers in F1.

Do not underestimate experienced guys. When Coulthard joined Red Bull, it was also questioned, why was he hired and that he is past his prime. Reality was that he beat his young team-mates and extended his career for many years. And look, for how long has Barrichello managed to hold onto a F1 drive and next year he will join yet another team to groom a young driver. Trulli may not be top-class material, if you are criticizing him for that, but there are only a few drivers out there, who are, so that's not a shame. And at the moment Sauber can't get any top-class driver, so they have to be content with the rest they can get.

If Heidfeld stays in Sauber, I can understand, why they may not be keen on taking Trulli alongside him (since they already have one experienced driver), but if Heidfeld goes to Mercedes, I would take Trulli in a heartbeat as a lead driver with a youngster alongside him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:30:09:55:37 by rear wing.

hmm....seems like there are too many speculations of what are the drivers whom will drive for Team Sauber F1... well, considering of whatever things that arose, we still can't decide or even know who will be the drivers for next season... plus, about the returning of ex-Toyota F1 team which are now under Stefan(maybe) to F1... and yet, Mercedes GP are now still hot with Schumacher thingy as Schumacher did mentioned that there's possibility of returning for 2010 season... we're now, we rarely heard about Heidfeld going to be with Mercedes GP as everybody still talking about who will get the 13th grid slot... Trulli....possibility he will be with Lotus F1 team is quite high as there is rumour that Jacques Villeneuve is going to in that team too... Huh! it's hard to think right now... however, i'm positive that there will be a senior and a junior driver going to be in Team Sauber F1...

Please don't going into the bashing vs praising Trulli stuff

IMO I'd have a PDLR (for developing the car especially) and Heidfeld. If Heidfeld is off to Mclaren then Trulli would be ok, or perhaps risking and going for Kobayashi, who while still has lot to prove and has been overhyped, would bring sponsors like Panasonci, believed to be over 5million €.

Racing against the machine!

Quote:

or perhaps risking and going for Kobayashi, who while still has lot to prove and has been overhyped

Kobayashi out scored Trulli a 10+ year veteran of F1 in only two races.

Perhaps it's not Kobayashi that is over hyped?

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

Czcibor,

Maybe it's a little of both, Trulli living up to being a good mediocre driver and Kobayachi just plain doing well when given the opportunity. Only more exposure will tell if he can continue good performances.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:11:30:19:03:07 by sessions.

good point sessions... if Kobayashi's performances maintain the whole season, then, we could tell that he is better than Trulli... this also includes any possibility that will rise towards him and his car. in terms of anything. example, car broke down, engine failure, or what-so-ever things because all this will and absolutely affect driver's performances...