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Always better to have the enemy in your own team, than in another fast car out of control..ask macca.."we are racing against fernando"


OK Folks, Heads up!!!,We are going to win Next championship.
Fernando Alonso dixit
205 races 32 wins 22 pole 91 podiums,65 races with ferrari, 11 wins, 37 podiums 23 consecutive races in the points, and there goes the record.. thanks grosjean!,thanks Kimi!..now the record is yours.

what crap.... Alonso ain't wanting Vettel at ferrari he says he aint been out scored by this teammate's well maybe but Hamilton matched this point score on this rookie year, and there is no way Vettel will leave RBR if the contract says he has to move over for Alonso.lets face it Alonso only has his time at ferrari to be world champion again cos if hamilton or vettel where in the same car he would be nowhere, and after the way he has acted with Massa who would want to drive with a back stabber like that, he's just a @#$%& that can drive ok

he is right, no teammate has outscored him.

and what do we expect him to say about vettel, "OMG am scared?"

what vettel or hamilton would do in future if paired with alonso can't be foretold.

nando fans would say he would lead, while others argue, but being an f1 fan, i would want either of them with alonso or atleast kubica, cuz i feel good competition makes excellent athelete perform more than he could otherwise.

but i bet if massa is continuing as he did this season, then either of the above three will drive a red car along with nando.

Quote:

johnguru79
what crap.... Alonso ain't wanting Vettel at ferrari he says he aint been out scored by this teammate's well maybe but Hamilton matched this point score on this rookie year, and there is no way Vettel will leave RBR if the contract says he has to move over for Alonso.lets face it Alonso only has his time at ferrari to be world champion again cos if hamilton or vettel where in the same car he would be nowhere, and after the way he has acted with Massa who would want to drive with a back stabber like that, he's just a @#$%& that can drive ok

LOL, what does Alonso have to fear in Vettel?????!!!!! Alonso is a much better driver then Vettel, case closed.

Vettel had a better race car this past year, that's all. Vettel is MOT the best driver in Formula One by a long shot! Alonso, Hamilton, Button, etc. are certainly all better technical drivers a much more seasoned then Vettel. Vettel is a very good driver but I don't see him as the best. I still see Vettel needing a few more years to polish his ability.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Totally agree frank.

Of the top crop vettel is sooooooooooo over rated. Put him at the front with no one up his sr5e and you cant touch him, throw him into the mix and he is like a duck on an icey pond.

Love this bit from nando


“I do not have anything in particular to say on the matter, but I am not afraid of any teammate, because I have never been frightened. None of my teammates has ever won even a single point more than me, so I do not see why I should be frightened of anyone.”

More by luck and sabotage than skill nando, but you have got to admire his front he has more than a double decker bus.

LOL, I meant to write NOT, not MOT. I have big hands and typing suffers from it. As far as Tony's last comments about Alonso, lets hope his driving does the talking and we don't have any more questionable issues to cloud anyone's judgement of his driving ability.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Come on guys, all experts and insiders agree that Alonso is the best F1 driver nowadays so if they say it must have a reason, case closed.

In my modest opinion as a F1 fan honestly do see Vettel by far overrated, on top he had by far the most competitive car all year through but even that way Nando was up to steal RBulls the show.

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel or Kubica

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel or Kubica

Cant argue with that.

neither do i..

yet still want to see kubica in a top car for once
we know already what he can do with mediocre ones.


OK Folks, Heads up!!!,We are going to win Next championship.
Fernando Alonso dixit
205 races 32 wins 22 pole 91 podiums,65 races with ferrari, 11 wins, 37 podiums 23 consecutive races in the points, and there goes the record.. thanks grosjean!,thanks Kimi!..now the record is yours.

yeah, i hope the reno is up there with the bulls and ferrari next year.

It never fails...

Anytime anybody else wins, it's the car and the driver sucks. Any time Alonso wins, he's the best, he got more out of the car than anybody.

Here's the fact: Alonso was only put on equal footing with a teammate ONCE. At McLaren. Against Hamilton. A ROOKIE.

He cheated, and STILL lost.

End of discussion.

Is he good? Yes. Is he the best? No. Never was.

You can't be the best when you lose the only time you ever actually raced somebody even when you cheated to try to win.


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

You can't be the best when you lose the only time you ever actually raced somebody even when you cheated to try to win.


Good point.

1 Hamilton
2 Kubica
3 Webber or Vettel
4 Nando or Schumi

Don't especially like Nando's whining if the chips are down, but it's fairly common among most F1 drivers.(not all)
IMO they all take advantage of a given situation, (call it cheating if you wish) but it seems to go with the territory, be it cutting corners, blocking in the pit lanes or blocking the track itself.
I hate it when fans take away their attributes in lieu of a few flaws in judgement. After all it's racing and all the marbles are up for grabs.
Too many fans seem to rag on a driver if it happens not to be their man of choice.
Alonso, Hamilton, Kubica and a few more are the cream of the crop so when they excel let it be. When they waver slightly let it be as well.
They are all very determined to out do each other and winning is their prime mover even to a fault at times.
So what ? It generally only gives us excitement and for sure, more to rant on about.

P.S. HAPPY NEW YEARS !

sessions



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:30:19:18:27 by sessions.

If only it was that simple sessions. Nando plays dirty/crys/demands/too many things to mention on another level to the rest.

His gesture to petrov summed the man up, he is not a man,certainly not a sportsman.

True Hall,

It's not simple and some drivers are worse than others but we as fans fall into same category.
Monitoring over at Mercedes GP becomes a real task at times. We got great posters like here, but our division over drivers is not trite to say the least. I guess all I'm trying to say is it's like everything else and F1 has its extremes as well.
Sometimes when you see a guy like Button who handles both victory and defeat with understated emotion it leads some fans to say he doesn't have the killer instinct.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't !
I believe if he can manage a WDC; he has what it takes.

sessions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:31:00:09:55 by sessions.

Agreed mate.

It is possible to find a flaw in every driver.

Yeah, we all have our faults, but i would say Alonso is by far the most complete f1 driver of the current lot, and i feel Hamilton would be a force to reckon with in the immediate future.

What happened at mclaren with hamilton that season is unknown with contradicting stories flying around from every quarter, and i for one wants both these fiery gentlemen once again in same team or atleast battling closely for championship with each other in the coming years.

lewis is the worst when it comes to racing,and now it seems off track he is having issues also.

Alonso is lying.

lewis is the worst when it comes to racing

Funny that, i dont remember him parking a car in a pit lane infront of millions because a rookie ruffled his feathers........................you can never win a moral arguement when comparing nando remember that folks, because nando could not lie straight in bed and neither can his gayboys fanboys.

Happy Hogmanay

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Happy New Year!!!!!

Forza Ferrari!!!!

The New Ferrari Race Car will be here soon!!!!

Forza Ferrari!!!!

I hear ya Frank,The only way they respond is by name calling.

Whats really funny is that they hang in a Ferrari forum.

What happened at mclaren with hamilton that season is unknown with contradicting stories flying around from every quarter,

Maybe if you're an Alonso fan.

There is fact, and then there is what Alonso fans say.

FACT: Alonso knew he was cheating. He knew that he, his crew, Tom C., Nigel S. and Pedro DLR were using illegal information that the rest of McLaren didn't know about in an effort to gain an advantage.

Alonso was given immunity so that he would testify to those exact facts at trial. Pedro DLR was also given immunity for his testimony to those same facts.

In the end, Tom C., Nigel S. were found guilty. Ron Dennis was held responsible because it was his team that did it.

So, Alonso cheated, admitted it, got away with it and only the team bosses suffered for it.

Hmmmm...now where have we heard that story before? OH YEA...Renault. Same thing. The only difference between the two cases is that Alonso claimed he didn't know in the Renault case. He never claimed that in the McLaren case.

In either case, the same guy cheating the same way for different teams under the same circumstances and always getting away with it while everyone else suffers for it.

And you guys ADMIRE him?

How?


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:31:21:01:30 by Parminio_USA.

Quote:

Parminio_USA
What happened at mclaren with hamilton that season is unknown with contradicting stories flying around from every quarter,
Maybe if you're an Alonso fan.

There is fact, and then there is what Alonso fans say.

FACT: Alonso knew he was cheating. He knew that he, his crew, Tom C., Nigel S. and Pedro DLR were using illegal information that the rest of McLaren didn't know about in an effort to gain an advantage.

Alonso was given immunity so that he would testify to those exact facts at trial. Pedro DLR was also given immunity for his testimony to those same facts.

In the end, Tom C., Nigel S. were found guilty. Ron Dennis was held responsible because it was his team that did it.

So, Alonso cheated, admitted it, got away with it and only the team bosses suffered for it.

Hmmmm...now where have we heard that story before? OH YEA...Renault. Same thing. The only difference between the two cases is that Alonso claimed he didn't know in the Renault case. He never claimed that in the McLaren case.

In either case, the same guy cheating the same way for different teams under the same circumstances and always getting away with it while everyone else suffers for it.

And you guys ADMIRE him?

How?

I am going to echo Frank...

Blah, blah, blah, blah......

@ Nick,

Good going friend. Thank you for the positive sentiment. Great to see our opinions are not being lost in the bashing going on by the other people posting.

Let them talk and let them carry on. They don't appear to Ferrari Fans anyway but thats ok, the 2011 season is right around the corner. It was good to read that Ferrari are trying some new structural design compositions and applications of the new Ferrari monoque for the 2011 season. Looks like Ferrari are going ALL OUT in developing the 2011 race car!

Happy New Year Nick and best to you and your family in 2011.



Forza Ferrari!!!!

Quote:

lewis is the worst when it comes to racing

A statement like that will just make people laugh at you. It shows your either ignorant, or your blinded by hate. Probably both in your case.

Hamilton is one of the best when it comes to racecraft. This is nothing new to anyone who watches F1 and doesn't have any sort of mental issue.

I'm not a fan of Alonso, but I still think he is also one of the best racers out there.

@ Parminio,

Your a very strange one! Now yoou are trying to make people believe that Alonso was the one on the McLaren Team that is the guilty party for the worst, most underhanded deed to hit Formula One in the history of the sport????!!!!! It is very sad that even after all this time, you still choose to not see the facts of that case! The WHOLE of the ENTIRE Mclaren Team, Every Engineer, Every Upper Manager and Ron Dennis himself had full knowledge of the entire Ferrari F1 Race Car and Ron Dennis, himself used that information of the Ferrari race car to file a protest regarding the floor of the Ferrari race car!!!! No, you are badly misinformed and obviously have a hate fixation on Alonso. Alonso was not the cheater, THE ENTIRE MCLAREN ENGINEERING STAFF and TEAM WERE THE CHEATERS!!!!! Many of us still feel the McLaren Team should have been thrown out of the sport and banished for what they did!!!!!

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Quote:

Parminio_USA
[b]
And you guys ADMIRE him?

How?

Because he drives better than any other driver on the grid presently.

I am not a personal fan of alonso, I like F1 and currently Alonso and Hamilton are the best.

If Alonso is a liar, what is Hamilton? Didn't he lie to the world and when caught, to save his own a$$, he apologised.

If mclaren used ferrari's data, it cannot be used until approved by the team management, and whether its alonso, pedro or any other driver, it is all up to the team to decide whether to use it or no, so the guilty is the team always.

Ron Dennis accepted all that came, used it to improve the car, so he is the prime guilty, no matter what.

The renault case too, the driver cannot be held guilty, as he is not the one who takes decision, but the team boss.

If the teams or their bosses were clean or clear in their mind, they would have stopped. But no, they wanted to cheat their way to win, so if you approve cheating, you need to pay for it first when caught.

Dennis and Flavio both have paid the price for cheating.

I am more concerned of the results on track, and for me alonso is the best pilot out there. period.

@ PHP,

Very well said!



Forza Ferrari!!!!

I hear ya Frank,The only way they respond is by name calling.

Said the pot to the kettle

Your a very strange one! Now yoou are trying to make people believe that Alonso was the one on the McLaren Team that is the guilty party for the worst, most underhanded deed to hit Formula One in the history of the sport????!!!!!

Have a day off frank crashing a car on purpose is much much worse, also parking a car in the pit lane runs pretty close.

Sometimes i wish i was a nando fan for a day just to see what its like living on his fans planet.

@ Tony,

Alonso was never found guilty of anything related to the "Crash Gate" case. We can speculate all we want and come up with all kinds of scenarios as to who know what but the facts are Alonso has never been charged nor found guilty of having any involvement in the case. I think the saying goes "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". We can all go back to Senna days when he purposely crashed his car into opponents to secure his Championship. Schumacher has done the same in the past. Hamilton has made many dangerous moves on the race track and has been penalized for it many times. Drivers often do some very dangerous things on the race track at times. It is just part of the sport of race car driving.

As far as Alonso is concerned, I have NOT seen him make ANY of the kinds of dangerous, extreme maneuvers MANY other drivers have made on the race track. Frankly, I personally think Alonso is getting a very raw deal! He is being found guilty of things purely by association and not by any hard facts. It seems people are quick to be very cynical and judge him based on conjecture then on the facts.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

The fact is frank, he is a prize a55hole.



As far as Alonso is concerned, I have NOT seen him make ANY of the kinds of dangerous, extreme maneuvers MANY other drivers have made on the race track.

You were saying?

video: [url][/url]


Note how the bad losing typical spaniard still has time to give the finger whilst going backwards

Yes, drivers sometimes crash and make gestures afterwards to show their displeasure. I have seen many drivers give the same show of emotion. That makes him such a bad person??? Have you ever seen a driver throw his helmet in anger after he crashes or after his car fails??? I have seen it many times and rarely do we label the driver the kinds of things some people posting are saying about Alonso. I just don't get it???

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Yes frank they all do it, but nando does it on a grand scale and in such a cry baby way.

Nando showed the world what kind of sportsman he is with that pit stop stunt against a rookie kid he could not beat, he lost any respect as a person from me in that single instant.

Its just not cricket.

Alonso was never found guilty of anything related to the "Crash Gate" case.

Of course not. Once again, his money bought him immunity.

For the THOUSANDTH time: Alonso is THE ONLY MAN THAT BENEFITED FROM EVERY CHEATING SCANDAL IN RECENT F1 HISTORY.

Yet he gets immunity every time.

You know why? Money.

They call Schumacher a cheat because he pulled over on someone. At least he did that himself. Alonso enlist the help of everyone to cheat for him and when he gets caught he throws them all under the bus and tells on them and gets away with it by paying everyone off.

That is the fact. Deal with it. You can't sit there and KNOW that every cheating scandal in the last several years has involved Alonso and STILL say he's a great driver.

If he's that great, why is he ALWAYS involved in cheating? Why does he need it?

Riddle me that one, fanboy.


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Quote:

The WHOLE of the ENTIRE Mclaren Team, Every Engineer, Every Upper Manager and Ron Dennis himself...

Alonso knew about it too. So why don't you blame him as well?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:01:16:32:08 by scorpio.

all lies once again,where is the facts not opinions.

and tony name calling,you always start it first i just finish it.

tony try an be a man,don't be like lewis.

Quote:

scorpio

Quote:

lewis is the worst when it comes to racing

A statement like that will just make people laugh at you. It shows your either ignorant, or your blinded by hate. Probably both in your case.

none of the above,im doing just like guys saying anything and say their the facts.


Hamilton is one of the best when it comes to racecraft. This is nothing new to anyone who watches F1 and doesn't have any sort of mental issue.

I'm not a fan of Alonso, but I still think he is also one of the best racers out there.

Quote:

Parminio_USA
Alonso was never found guilty of anything related to the "Crash Gate" case.
Of course not. Once again, his money bought him immunity.

For the THOUSANDTH time: Alonso is THE ONLY MAN THAT BENEFITED FROM EVERY CHEATING SCANDAL IN RECENT F1 HISTORY.

Yet he gets immunity every time.

You know why? Money.

They call Schumacher a cheat because he pulled over on someone. At least he did that himself. Alonso enlist the help of everyone to cheat for him and when he gets caught he throws them all under the bus and tells on them and gets away with it by paying everyone off.

That is the fact. Deal with it. You can't sit there and KNOW that every cheating scandal in the last several years has involved Alonso and STILL say he's a great driver.

If he's that great, why is he ALWAYS involved in cheating? Why does he need it?

Riddle me that one, fanboy.

While I am neither for or against Alonso your post got my attention.

I suppose with all the money Ron/McLaren has he couldn't buy himself immunity.

How does that work?

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

Seeing around ones own biases is an exercise that requires some serious self-analysis that many may refuse to subject themselves to. It even requires more dedication than sticking to all those New Years Resolutions.

Put that cigarette down. Shut the refrigerator door. Yes, jog on a day like today. No more beer ! We must be crazy....

Happy New Year

sessions

tony try an be a man


you always start it first



the pot talks again.


Yeah very grown up TC lmao.

I suppose with all the money Ron/McLaren has he couldn't buy himself immunity.

How does that work?

It's simple: You don't know what's going on.

You folks have VERY selective memories. Ron, at first, denied any wrong doing swearing that there is no way McLaren would ever be a party to spying as the allegations said.

What Ron didn't know, was that the whole thing was run by Alonso, Tom C., Nigel S. and Pedro DLR. Nobody else knew anything about it.

Alonso then went and for immunity promised to tell the truth. The truth he told was that he had been using special setup information stolen by Nigel S. to gain an advantage, but that nobody other than he, Tom C., Nigel S., and Pedro DLR knew anything about it.

McLaren were fined 100 million because the team had failed to police its own people. That part was fact. Under Ron's own nose, his team had cheated without his knowledge. Who's fault is that? Ron's. He accepted that responsibility, but was never even charged with any wrong doing other than he didn't know to begin with.

After securing his AND Pedro DLR's immunity, it came to light that Alonso was seeking a new deal back with Renault almost immediately and that he wanted out of his contract immediately.

The reason that came about is mostly conjecture, but what we do know as a fact is that he suddenly was out of money completely and was facing some pretty severe foreclosure proceedings abroad.

How did that happen? You go from one of the highest paid guys on earth to flat broke over night? Two weeks later you sign for a contract that wasn't even as good as the one you had to begin with?

The whole thing reeked of payoff. Alonso paid off Tom and Nigel with millions. It sent him broke. He then signed back with Renault with a bonus from, guess who, Flavio B, who he would later throw under the bus for cheating on his behalf. What he didn't know is that McLaren would void his contract outright, which they did. They also sued and received money from Renault which put Alonso behind the 8 ball even further, but that too was mysteriously paid off. (Santander)

The biggest X-factor in all of this is simple this: Who let it happen?

Answer: Mr. Max Mosley

His two biggest enemies in recent history have been Flavio and Ron. With the aide of Alonso, Santander, some money and a bit of luck, he's gotten rid of them both.

Now here comes the funny part:

From his "retirement" bed, who is Max now slamming the most?

You guessed it: Luca D. Why is that do you think? Because the Alonso/Santander money train has dried up for him. Being forced out was something Max never foresaw. He's been on Luca D's case ever since. Why? Because Alonso is there. He knows it's only a matter of time before something rears it's ugly head at Ferrari and he's waiting to pounce on it.

It's coming folks. Sooner or later. It's happened everywhere Alonso has ever gone.


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Hey Parm,

I want what you were drinking last night!!!!

Your "Story" regarding who is the guilty party in the McLaren using Classified Ferrari Design Data gets better and better with each passing month!

The fact is Alonso DID NOT have access to the data. If anything, Lewis Hamilton is the driver that fully benifitted from the knowledge of data that Ron and his Engineers had!!! Just because Pedro is Spanish, you assume Alonso had complete knowledge to the happenings between a Top McLaren Engineer and a Ferrari Mechanic. You assume way to much. Maybe Alonso was OUT OF THE LOOP and he DID NOT have any knowledge of the data at all and he was upset that Lewis Hamilton had help from the McLaren Team and he did not!!!! Maybe this was the reason why he had so many problems with Ron and the McLaren Team Engineers!!!! This is a much more plausible explaination as to what ACTUALLY occurred at McLaren! The fact is Tom C. (Top McLaren Engineer) had the dosier and passed it around the office!!!!! ALL McLaren personnel fully reviewed the data and passed it around the office!!!!! Ron Dennis had 100%, FULL KNOWLEDGE of the Dosier and EVERYTHING that went on!!!!! He was not in the dark by no means!!!!! This is exactly what Ron admitted to and he took full responsibility for it to!!!! This is why he retired and this is what spared the McLaren Team from being thrown out of Formula One.

Parm, you can make up as many things as you want but what I just stated is what ACTUALLY happened and WELL DOCUMENTED. No conjecture and no opinion! Just the actual summary as to what ACTUALLY happened in this Spy Case!!!! You talk as though Alonso is some kind of God and everyone is scared to find him guilty of anything! He is just a driver! He is just a driver! He is just a driver! The teams are certainly bigger than any one driver. Santander is a very new party to Formula One and they are not the biggest bank in the world! Please come down to earth and stop the with nonsense accusations that are just your opinion. You make no sense at all.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Um Frank, You say FA did not have access to the DATA and say that is a FACT, you are mistaken. The facts are that he did have access and you know it.

Shall i trawl through posts until i find the ones that show that in fact you commented on it at the time??? don't post blantent untruths or when you do post facts, peopleare just goingto think you are making it up...
As you have previously posted 100's of time, show some respect and others may respect you.

@ hammerthief,

Fair enough. I think people will think what they think.

Maybe the best thing for any driver to do is WIN!!!! To win races is what will validate the ability of the driver. We have the makings of a great 2011 season getting ready to begin. Many well Engineered teams and many excellent drivers! I look forward to see how many different solutions the teams can come up with to gain the edge. Vettel / Webber, Alonso / Massa, Button / Hamilton, Rosberg / Schumacher, Kubica / Petrov, Etc. Many great teams and many great drivers. The drivers I like the most are Alonso, Button, Webber, Kubica & Rosberg. The others are very good but just not my favorites.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

and everyone else has their fav...however mistaken that support may be!! Be very boring if everyone was the same....

Quote:

The fact is Alonso DID NOT have access to the data. If anything, Lewis Hamilton is the driver that fully benifitted from the knowledge of data that Ron and his Engineers had!!!

Frank, now your just lying. Did you forget about the emails between alonso and De la rosa?

Quote:

Parminio_USA
I suppose with all the money Ron/McLaren has he couldn't buy himself immunity.
How does that work?

It's simple: You don't know what's going on.

You folks have VERY selective memories. Ron, at first, denied any wrong doing swearing that there is no way McLaren would ever be a party to spying as the allegations said.

What Ron didn't know, was that the whole thing was run by Alonso, Tom C., Nigel S. and Pedro DLR. Nobody else knew anything about it.

Alonso then went and for immunity promised to tell the truth. The truth he told was that he had been using special setup information stolen by Nigel S. to gain an advantage, but that nobody other than he, Tom C., Nigel S., and Pedro DLR knew anything about it.

McLaren were fined 100 million because the team had failed to police its own people. That part was fact. Under Ron's own nose, his team had cheated without his knowledge. Who's fault is that? Ron's. He accepted that responsibility, but was never even charged with any wrong doing other than he didn't know to begin with.

After securing his AND Pedro DLR's immunity, it came to light that Alonso was seeking a new deal back with Renault almost immediately and that he wanted out of his contract immediately.

The reason that came about is mostly conjecture, but what we do know as a fact is that he suddenly was out of money completely and was facing some pretty severe foreclosure proceedings abroad.

How did that happen? You go from one of the highest paid guys on earth to flat broke over night? Two weeks later you sign for a contract that wasn't even as good as the one you had to begin with?

The whole thing reeked of payoff. Alonso paid off Tom and Nigel with millions. It sent him broke. He then signed back with Renault with a bonus from, guess who, Flavio B, who he would later throw under the bus for cheating on his behalf. What he didn't know is that McLaren would void his contract outright, which they did. They also sued and received money from Renault which put Alonso behind the 8 ball even further, but that too was mysteriously paid off. (Santander)

The biggest X-factor in all of this is simple this: Who let it happen?

Answer: Mr. Max Mosley

His two biggest enemies in recent history have been Flavio and Ron. With the aide of Alonso, Santander, some money and a bit of luck, he's gotten rid of them both.

Now here comes the funny part:

From his "retirement" bed, who is Max now slamming the most?

You guessed it: Luca D. Why is that do you think? Because the Alonso/Santander money train has dried up for him. Being forced out was something Max never foresaw. He's been on Luca D's case ever since. Why? Because Alonso is there. He knows it's only a matter of time before something rears it's ugly head at Ferrari and he's waiting to pounce on it.

It's coming folks. Sooner or later. It's happened everywhere Alonso has ever gone.

quote of the year, is closed and were only on the first day

"It's simple: You don't know what's going on."

yet you parm seem to ahve intimate and unshakeable knowledge facts on what happened in the workings of a team in one fo the most secretive societies (f1) in the world (well at least there data is leaked less often than the us government)

also your sig 1914, dont think you guys were very busy back then were you

@ Scorpio,

I guess we could go back and replay all of the data and all of the facts and all of the details of the case and try to make people understand what happened, all over again. Lets just go with the ruling by the FIA and the penalties that were handed out to get a better idea where blame was cast and who was found guilty in that case and leave it at that. I for one do not choose to revisit that case.

I think it did harm to the Ferrari Team that year and for many years after that season.

The fact is, to date, Fernando Alonso has NEVER been found guilty of any wrong doing. This is my main point, thats all.

Vettel and Alonso are both very different drivers. Put them in equal race cars and the greater experience of Alonso should shine brighter. I look at the how each has faired compared to their respective team mates and the picture gets clearer. Webber was very close to Vettel all year. Massa was way off Alonso's pace at almost every race of the season. He was rarely close to Alonso in any of the qualifying sessions. Webber was much more a match for Vettel. In the end Vettel just had a faster race car but Alonso was quite close. It would be nice to see Vettel on the Ferrari Team but I would rather see Nico Rosberg at Ferrari, even more. I don't see Hamilton, Button or Webber at Ferrari. I could see Kubica at Ferrari, for sure. He has his early years in Italy as a young driver he certainly is one of the top 5 drivers in Formula One.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

I always thought the alonso emails were the nail in the coffin?

OMG the defence is falling apart its either a lack of facts and thruths or childish hypocrisy ref: 'be a man'because 'you started it' pmsl.

I still cant believe he posted that What a start to the year made my day that did the donut.

I will stick to the thread : I think Alonso is a complete enough driver that does not have reason to fear Vettel if he found Vettel on the same Ferrari Team as him.

In the big picture, the quality of the race car and error-free driving will dictate the driver's results more then anything. I think it is very clear that when a driver is driving very well he rarely makes errors and his driving is not forces and he drives very fluid. I think Alonso drove well in the 2nd half of the season. Alonso "Over-Drive" the race car the first part of the season and lost many points because of it. Vettel and several other top drivers suffered from poor performances during the season. I think Alonso suffered the most in the 1st half of the season with to many poor drives. His driving was to "Forced" and he was trying to hard. The several other top drivers suffered from not being fluid with the race car. Lewis Hamilton. He seemed to be over working the race car for most of the season and he paid the price as well. He seemed more relaxed with the car in the second part of the season. Vettel & Webber had the fastest race car but Vettel suffered most with poor driving at times. The move he made crashing into Jenson Button stands out most. Then there was the reliability factor.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

tony you proved my point perfect.coward of a man sending PM's

Unlike you I have nothing to hide.

All that write from Parm is simply garbage. Doesn't warrant a response.


@ Tony, What's your point on the video?. A driver gives a finger and that makes him what?. Wait.. a @#$%& according to you. Well the entire field based on their nature are @#$%&.
I was disappointed that was @#$%& poor attempt. maybe the other haters can come up with better.

coward of a man

tut tut the pot is name calling again


Unlike you I have nothing to hide

You have proven that with your sexual advances towards me many times pot.

Nick, remove your head from your backside and read the thread before posting your dribble, it was mearly to show nando is not whiter than white on track as frank would have us believe.

I reckon you and tc would make a lovely couple

Oh and BTW pot.

'You started it' coward

Well I think everyone should cool down a bit. Lets stop the insults and personal attacks. Lets not attack one another and try to stay on topic.

Some are for Alonso and some are not. Many people like many other drivers (No Need to Name Names Of Either). Lets all agree to find common ground and take great joy in the fact we are all here to enjoy the up coming Formula One Season.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

OK Frank here is to 2011

Quote:

Parminio_USA
I suppose with all the money Ron/McLaren has he couldn't buy himself immunity.
How does that work?

It's simple: You don't know what's going on.

You folks have VERY selective memories. Ron, at first, denied any wrong doing swearing that there is no way McLaren would ever be a party to spying as the allegations said.

What Ron didn't know, was that the whole thing was run by Alonso, Tom C., Nigel S. and Pedro DLR. Nobody else knew anything about it.

Alonso then went and for immunity promised to tell the truth. The truth he told was that he had been using special setup information stolen by Nigel S. to gain an advantage, but that nobody other than he, Tom C., Nigel S., and Pedro DLR knew anything about it.

McLaren were fined 100 million because the team had failed to police its own people. That part was fact. Under Ron's own nose, his team had cheated without his knowledge. Who's fault is that? Ron's. He accepted that responsibility, but was never even charged with any wrong doing other than he didn't know to begin with.

After securing his AND Pedro DLR's immunity, it came to light that Alonso was seeking a new deal back with Renault almost immediately and that he wanted out of his contract immediately.

The reason that came about is mostly conjecture, but what we do know as a fact is that he suddenly was out of money completely and was facing some pretty severe foreclosure proceedings abroad.

How did that happen? You go from one of the highest paid guys on earth to flat broke over night? Two weeks later you sign for a contract that wasn't even as good as the one you had to begin with?

The whole thing reeked of payoff. Alonso paid off Tom and Nigel with millions. It sent him broke. He then signed back with Renault with a bonus from, guess who, Flavio B, who he would later throw under the bus for cheating on his behalf. What he didn't know is that McLaren would void his contract outright, which they did. They also sued and received money from Renault which put Alonso behind the 8 ball even further, but that too was mysteriously paid off. (Santander)

The biggest X-factor in all of this is simple this: Who let it happen?

Answer: Mr. Max Mosley

His two biggest enemies in recent history have been Flavio and Ron. With the aide of Alonso, Santander, some money and a bit of luck, he's gotten rid of them both.

Now here comes the funny part:

From his "retirement" bed, who is Max now slamming the most?

You guessed it: Luca D. Why is that do you think? Because the Alonso/Santander money train has dried up for him. Being forced out was something Max never foresaw. He's been on Luca D's case ever since. Why? Because Alonso is there. He knows it's only a matter of time before something rears it's ugly head at Ferrari and he's waiting to pounce on it.

It's coming folks. Sooner or later. It's happened everywhere Alonso has ever gone.

So to be clear, what you are suggesting is that Ron is not the brightest crayon in the box?

He lucked into attracting some of the best drivers in F1 history to drive for him. Won multiple Championships and built The McLaren Technology Centre whilst turning out super cars?

All this while he knows not what goes on in his company?

Let me know if I have overlooked anything?

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

@hall

can you stop insulting people about their sexual preferences, the reference that being gay is worse is completely wrong, try it some time you might like it

there must be a reason why the ultimate pleasure a man can revive comes from stimulation of the prostate gland, a feat only achievable through anal penetration

hmm, the anti-spanish brigade is in full swing.

@ phatjack, you are right, how come no one else has any backing and only alonso gets out of every scandal. Money seems to free flow for alonso....or is it magic, or shall we say one-eyed observation of fans who might blame alonso for climate change too

as to parking in the pit is equally shameful as not obeying your own team.

It was lewis who blamed the "team" after monaco that he was forced to play second fiddle that fuelled the bitterness in the team.

mclaren didn't want both drivers to take out each other and advised lewis not to go for win, while alonso was cruising (please read again, cruising) to win, while lewis was thinking he was faster than nando. (this is reported by bbc, not me, and someone had opened a thread on this too lately here)

then when it wasn't lewis's turn to pit, he still tried to pit to take the final flying lap, which alonso stopped.

So, who was going against the team? and on top of that lewis reportedely swore at dennis. (again reported in media, which mclaren later denied, but sheer frustration on dennis after he threw the headphones indicated otherwise).

yes, alonso knew that ferrari data was coming in, but i would say even lewis knew and both gained with a faster car that year......and if RON didn't knew, as claimed by a few here, then the mclaren team should have first kicked him out for being so dumb that after so many years of expertise in managing and running the team, he didn't knew what was happening under his nose.

f1 followers are not naive to believe that mclaren or for that matter any top team have never used other teams data or never spyed on them. What mclaren did in 2007 was nothing new, and Ron saying he didn't knew a thing is another bunch of fat lies.

But then Ron can lie, Lewis can lie, and if there is anyone who is a curse to f1 it's always schumacher and alonso.

So to be clear, what you are suggesting is that Ron is not the brightest crayon in the box?

He lucked into attracting some of the best drivers in F1 history to drive for him. Won multiple Championships and built The McLaren Technology Centre whilst turning out super cars?

All this while he knows not what goes on in his company?

Let me know if I have overlooked anything?

That right there is why you Ferrari fanboys are incapable of having a conversation. When the facts hit you in the face, you can't accept it. You just hurl out stupid, lameassed, nimrodic comments like that.

First off, it wasn't Ron's job to know about it. He simply accepted the responsibility for it because in the end he is an honorable man that was the team leader.

In reality, it was Martin Whitmarsh who was responsible.

Just for you who have no brain, I'll explain it in Lamens terms and just hope you get it:

You have Alonso. His direct chief engineer was Mike C. Mike C. was directly responsible for setting up Alonso's car and reporting his findings and actions to the technical director who was Martin W.

Martin W. gave weekly reports to the board including Ron D.

So what happened was Stepney gave the data to Coughlin that gave it to Mike that set it up on Alonso's car. They also set it up on Pedro's car as Mike was also the chief that ran the test sessions. Pedro being a brother Spaniard to Alonso, he also kept his mouth shut.

But Mike never made the reports on what he had done to Martin W. Instead, he used bogus data that was very similar to Lewis H. car so that everything would appear the same.

That is how they hid it.

Later on, when the technical data (telemetry) started looking markedly different, Whitmarsh went to Mike to get to the bottom of it. He knew something was going on, but he didn't know what.

That happened right at the time the story broke. Ron, of course, went straight to Martin demanding answers. Martin assured Ron that he had looked into it, but had found nothing.

Later, after Alonso and Pedro got immunity and spilled the beans, all of the hidden data was turned over to Martin, who then turned it over to the FIA.

That is why neither Martin nor Ron were ever even accused of any wrong doing...except by idiots on forums.

Ron did, however, step up to the plate as a man and took responsibility for it because in his opinion it should never have happened to begin with.

It's called honor. It's something Ron has.

Obviously, neither you nor Alonso have it. You're lame-assed statements make that abundantly clear.


New McLaren Fans Forum: McLaren Fans

Quote:

Parminio_USA
So to be clear, what you are suggesting is that Ron is not the brightest crayon in the box?
He lucked into attracting some of the best drivers in F1 history to drive for him. Won multiple Championships and built The McLaren Technology Centre whilst turning out super cars?

All this while he knows not what goes on in his company?

Let me know if I have overlooked anything?

That right there is why you Ferrari fanboys are incapable of having a conversation. When the facts hit you in the face, you can't accept it. You just hurl out stupid, lameassed, nimrodic comments like that.

First off, it wasn't Ron's job to know about it. He simply accepted the responsibility for it because in the end he is an honorable man that was the team leader.

In reality, it was Martin Whitmarsh who was responsible.

Just for you who have no brain, I'll explain it in Lamens terms and just hope you get it:

You have Alonso. His direct chief engineer was Mike C. Mike C. was directly responsible for setting up Alonso's car and reporting his findings and actions to the technical director who was Martin W.

Martin W. gave weekly reports to the board including Ron D.

So what happened was Stepney gave the data to Coughlin that gave it to Mike that set it up on Alonso's car. They also set it up on Pedro's car as Mike was also the chief that ran the test sessions. Pedro being a brother Spaniard to Alonso, he also kept his mouth shut.

But Mike never made the reports on what he had done to Martin W. Instead, he used bogus data that was very similar to Lewis H. car so that everything would appear the same.

That is how they hid it.

Later on, when the technical data (telemetry) started looking markedly different, Whitmarsh went to Mike to get to the bottom of it. He knew something was going on, but he didn't know what.

That happened right at the time the story broke. Ron, of course, went straight to Martin demanding answers. Martin assured Ron that he had looked into it, but had found nothing.

Later, after Alonso and Pedro got immunity and spilled the beans, all of the hidden data was turned over to Martin, who then turned it over to the FIA.

That is why neither Martin nor Ron were ever even accused of any wrong doing...except by idiots on forums.

Ron did, however, step up to the plate as a man and took responsibility for it because in his opinion it should never have happened to begin with.

It's called honor. It's something Ron has.

Obviously, neither you nor Alonso have it. You're lame-assed statements make that abundantly clear.

You come across as a typical red neck pansie ... if you feel the need to claim your superiority by throwing insults well then ....

Conveniently Ron focused on expanding McLaren's role in car manufacturing while Whitmarsh was appointed CEO.

Interesting who is at fault in you eyes for bring Alonso to McLaren.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

[b][/b]

Quote:

tamotu
@hall
can you stop insulting people about their sexual preferences, the reference that being gay is worse is completely wrong, try it some time you might like it

there must be a reason why the ultimate pleasure a man can revive comes from stimulation of the prostate gland, a feat only achievable through anal penetration

tamotu

I aint got a problem with anybodys sexuality (btw you seem to know a hell of alot about it) i mearly refer to the fact a certain poster seems to target anything i ever post and i can only think its because of an advance i once knocked back for me to suck something of his.

Anyway i always thought gay ment you were happy.

yes i do know a lot about it, gay can mean many things, which is why the context around the world is important

the sun is shining its lovely bright gay day

completely different meaning to


ehh i dont like you your gay

to

lets watch some gay porn

I'm sure glad both sides of this issue are so well informed with all this inside information. I surely hope no one is really offended by all this re-hashed banter and personal slurs; but it sounds as though it might at times. Too bad it doesn't stimulate the prostate gland, as much as it seems to penetrate the the primal side of the brain. Oh well I guess it helps pass the lull during the break. May as well get as much in as possible because sooner or later it will awake the monitors from their Holiday bliss.
Until then everyone hang in there and reserve your strength because it will happen again in about another three weeks or so.
Happy New Year.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:02:17:11:17 by sessions.

session well put ... it's a doggy doggy world. On this side of the pond Micheal Vick is proof of that.

If only some red necks understood the meaning red neck.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:02:18:21:37 by phatjack.

Well i have had a very gay day today i wish every day was as gay as this.

@Parm

You come across as a typical red neck pansie ... if you feel the need to claim your superiority by throwing insults well then ....

yeah you redneck pansie dont throw insults

yet another pot eh................

I'd put the question the other way, is vettel ready to be teammates with alonso?

alonso is no webber, and vettel would think not twice, but ten times before he signs for ferrari with alonso at the helm.

alonso for now would blow away the german, which would take a huge beating to the german's rising career.

i doubt after next season, when his contact expires with red bull, vettel would join ferrari. He might stick around for the additional year with the red bull.

After driving the rb6, why would vettel want to join ferrari?

Quote:

Hall_Green_Wolf
Well i have had a very gay day today i wish every day was as gay as this.
@Parm

You come across as a typical red neck pansie ... if you feel the need to claim your superiority by throwing insults well then ....

yeah you redneck pansie dont throw insults

yet another pot eh................

Hall_Green_Wolf,

Quote:

That is why neither Martin nor Ron were ever even accused of any wrong doing...except by idiots on forums.

Maybe you can enlighten us? I don't consider you an idiot but to paint everyone with the same brush would suggest one can't debate on merit in a forum.

Of course and I suppose you won't have further to say on this as it would only affirm Parm considers you an idiot too.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

OK Folks, Heads up!!!,We are going to win Next championship.
Fernando Alonso dixit
205 races 32 wins 22 pole 91 podiums,65 races with ferrari, 11 wins, 37 podiums 23 consecutive races in the points, and there goes the record.. thanks grosjean!,thanks Kimi!..now the record is yours.

Wrong end of the stick i think mate.

You call someone a red neck pansie then go on about throwing insults, i found that quite amusing.

Besides, parm already knows i am an idiot

Good point scorpio, for as long as red bull keep on knocking out these rockets why he want to move as he seems to have number 1 status (to a point) aswell at rb.

Scorpio,

I agree with Hall, good comment.
After all the trouble that occured with previous drivers who were teamed with Alonso, one must consider what it would be like to try and join forces with him. I don't think guys like Vettel, Kubica, or Hamilton will even attempt to go in that direction.
Lewis surely confirmed it can be a bumpy road, not to mention the headache it may present to team principles.

sessions

Sessions,
You're right. Unfortunately, I think the days of seeing two top drivers in the same team (Senna-Prost, Hamilton-Alonso) may be over after what happened in 2007. That's too bad. Although I would love to see Alonso come back to McLaren with Lewis. Lewis has already said he would have no problem being Alonsos' teammate again. Though I doubt it would happen.

Scorpio.

Boy, I sure hope your wrong about two top drivers joining a team together for F1's sake.
I think two top drivers can co-exist if the personalities are basically sound, i.e. don't harbour excessive greed and is maturely on top of his emotions.
Yes, I know that's asking a lot in f1, but their are some.
I think Kubica, Button, and a couple more in our current field are able to work together to achieve a better end and in a team capacity

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:03:18:56:54 by sessions.

Sessions,

It probably can still happen, but it's a delicate situation. Lewis and Jenson seem to work fine together. I think it's more a matter of if the team principals are willing to take the risk. However problems can happen no matter who the drivers are. Remember, Lewis was a rookie in 2007 and the 5hit still hit the fan.

After lewis and nando together macca signing button was a masterstroke for the team and both drivers.

Scorpio,

It's true anything can arise but if you pair two reasonably low strung drivers, i.e.(not hot blooded ones) together they seem to work things out better than the whiners or the (it's my way or the highway) types.

Hamilton/Button, Kubica/Hiedfeld, Kimi/and whomever, Villeneuve/Hill and several more.

sessions

Why would vettel join ferrari?

Every driver on the grid wants to drive a ferrari. That's how it is, no matter whether ferrari have won the previous season or not.

Vettel has always been vocal of driving ferrari, and still echoes the same, but he would be advised wisely not to with nando.

Wisely, meaning, as i said, he wouldn't want his rising graph to be disturbed in any way. No matter what mclaren say about alonso, he is the best out there, and it would be wiser for vettel to gain more confidence and fine tune before taking up the challenge.

Vettel is a good driver, but is prone to silly mistakes when in not a good position, and with a driver of alonso's calibre he would surely have a tough time.

I would say, putting vettel with hamilton would also backfire, as hamilton has much more grip now, compared to his earlier driving, with lesser mistakes.

On the topic of having two two super quick drivers in one team, is great, but if they both happen to be two hot headed ones, it makes life difficult, and teams have to think before making such decision.

Lewis and alonso were one of those, both of whom wouldn't budge for anything less, so naturally things becomes pretty dirty and nasty to handle.

alonso and hamilton both have been better off since then, as both have got team mates who are much cooler in their approach.

Quote:

Hall_Green_Wolf
After lewis and nando together macca signing button was a masterstroke for the team and both drivers.

Not really.... Everyone knew who was in charge

Though Button had made some gambles which turned out well for him at the beginning of the season, the better racer was Hamilton

Button was at the right place at the right time when he won his wdc with the strongest challenge coming from people who you could count the number of race wins between them

Quote:

Hall_Green_Wolf
After lewis and nando together macca signing button was a masterstroke for the team and both drivers.

I think it's as masterful as signing Nico and Schumacher at Mercedes.

Both good for promoting the brand to sort of speak.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

+1

Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko has played down the chances of world champion Sebastian Vettel leaving the team for Ferrari in the near future. "Sebastian would not leave us just because of the Ferrari legend," Marko said. "He is smart enough to know that the circumstances would have to fit. He would not go to Ferrari as long as Fernando Alonso is there. That would be stupid."


He would not go to Ferrari as long as Fernando Alonso is there. That would be stupid

So its not just internet fans that think that is the case then.