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Sounds like a vote of confidence to me, which normally ends in getting the sack.

Yep. The phrase "Vote of Confidence" is really just an acronym for "Kiss of Death".


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Didn't AVB have a vote of confidence, then a few weeks later, a lot of leisure time

The difference is in 2008 and first part of 2009 Massa was arguably the best driver on the grid, however since his return he has only had one race where he looked like his old self , Hockenheim 2011 and look what Ferrari did to him.

Those actions basically said, dont bother Felipe because if you are beating Alonso fair and square you will have to hand the place over to him, now in terms of the WDC that may have been the right thing for Ferrari to do, but in terms of the long game of having two drivers that will be bale to fight for places and outperform the car when needed, well that effed that one up

i doubt very much if the team are saying to massa that he must win or else, however no team can win a WCC title with one driver. they need two drivers consistently in the higher points bracket to even have a chance.

massa is simply not contributing to overall points and it is left to alonso to shoulder all the effort. not the way for a team to manage their prospects in a meaningful way.

massa has has been given a lot of time to get back to the highest level since his accident and i am really surprised at the level of support that he has been given. all that aside it is is points on the board that count and i fear that it is time for massa to go. further delay would appear to only exacerbate the status quo.

True, he has not reached the peak he showed before the accident, yet the first signs shown he gets shafted and told to pull over?

Where is the encouragement to try, when you best efforts are never actually rewarded.

perez was right there behind alonso in a sauber
it is a question if he can do the same in a ferrari, f2012

australia, it was pastor, a williams chasing a ferrari

the new chassis didn't help massa

FM to SD/LDM; if for some miracle me and my car is faster than alonso, will you guys pull me over?

SD/LDM, let me check Santander's account

Massa cannot keep on harping about German race that happened two years ago. What has he done after that to prove he is worthy a place in Ferrari? Yes, he got shafted, but instead of sulking, he should raised his game, which am sorry, he hasn't. Everyone goes through a rough patch, but having the same excuse year after year is not a good sign.

I've just had a delivery from UPS and they had a box shaped like a horse's head addressed to one F.Massa

Quote:

Jay
Massa cannot keep on harping about German race that happened two years ago. What has he done after that to prove he is worthy a place in Ferrari? Yes, he got shafted, but instead of sulking, he should raised his game, which am sorry, he hasn't. Everyone goes through a rough patch, but having the same excuse year after year is not a good sign.

German race was significant. It was a year exactly after his accident. What a time to peak, some will say

It was not once but several times that Massa was asked to pull over. Before that, Ferrari gave him the green light to race Kimi and he did not disappoint.

Now all I say is be careful who you wish for. Ferrari has precedent here

1. Badoer was put in the car... He ended up at the back of the grid. Some say MS knew how bad the car was hence the sore neck came at the right time for him

2. Fisi after a strong race in Spa was the people's favourite ( strange how it is similar to Perez). If memory serves me right he struggled to make top 10 in quali and the race he was miles behind Kimi

Ferrari make bricks for race cars, the drivers flatter the car. When the car is good to drive Massa shines. When it is a brick, he shows how bad it is

Fast Nick came in to replace Kubica, after several poor performances they parted way despite Senna a rookie being the front runner

Once again....beware what you wish for

Are you saying that a move to Fiat may not be in the best interests of Perez at this time? I can see that point. It's clearly a pig of a car and it's taking all of Alonso's genius to get a moderate performance out of it.

Perez may be better advised to sit tight where he is.

I really wouldn't advise any driver moving teams during the year, all cars are different in terms of handling, and understanding how to set up a Ferrari as opposed to a Sauber will be very different, and if the Ferrari team themselves dont understand how to set up the car, they are not gonna be able to help you

And with no testing you learn it all at the weekend, but its 'cost saving' apparently (because the rich teams dont just spend that money somewhere else)

I cant think of one driver that has benefited or even looked competitive against a teammate when they have switched teams when the season has started since maybe Trulli to Prost

I found very good words from Barrichello towards Massa (told to Globo Esporte) -

"He has to close his eyes and enjoy, remembering that he does this because he likes it."

I think this is the main difference between Massa and Barrichello - one could "close eyes" and tried to do all his best, at the time of Schumi, and another one couldn't do the same at the time of Alonso...

Well put.

i think that 'closing his eyes' may be the problem not the 'cure'!!!!!

I think its even more simple than that.

He is not very good.

Both are number 2. If you know what I mean.

as in
2++
2+
2
2-
2--

No, big, smelly Number 2.

Stefano wanted Alonso in, Kimi out.

08 reds opted to develop the car for Massas liking, and kimi was dropped to 2. (Schumi thought it was mistake talking about it)

09 accident for Massa, Kimi had his team back for few months and F60 Spa victory, collected most points for the rest of the season.

10 kimi out. Alonso didnt deliver. Alonso got after Germany total control of the team. With giving Massa the team orders, and after that suddenly had his magical "6 tenths" over Massa in remaining races... and coming seasons.

11. ...Alonso didnt deliver.

12. The car is not that good that they can give one driver such advantage without making the other driver looking silly.

Basically Domenicali has put the team down for ages. Some people knew what was coming when domenicali took over.

Ferrari bought success by ripping the guts out of the Benneton team. Now those guys have all left, it's back to the old slightly above average routine where they spent most of the 70's, 80's and 90's

Quote:

Timba7
Stefano wanted Alonso in, Kimi out.
Stefano doesn't decide anything, it's Luca

08 reds opted to develop the car for Massas liking, and kimi was dropped to 2. (Schumi thought it was mistake talking about it)

Kimi was the champion, and no team is stupid to design car for the other driver

09 accident for Massa, Kimi had his team back for few months and F60 Spa victory, collected most points for the rest of the season.

Since the dream team have left, Ferrari have alwasy started slow, but developed it better as season progress, and still Massa drove better than Kimi until he was sidelined with accident.

10 kimi out. Alonso didnt deliver. Alonso got after Germany total control of the team. With giving Massa the team orders, and after that suddenly had his magical "6 tenths" over Massa in remaining races... and coming seasons.

Ferrari screwed Massa, i accept, but it proved right in the end as the Spaniard almost won the championship. Alonso is the right driver to be backed.

11. ...Alonso didnt deliver.

err, it's Ferrari that didn't deliver

12. The car is not that good that they can give one driver such advantage without making the other driver looking silly.

the car is a dog, and if anything would be face saving, it could only be Alonso's driving

Basically Domenicali has put the team down for ages. Some people knew what was coming when domenicali took over.

Basically, you are wrong

+1.
Basically rubbish post.

Why is that no matter what team you support in whatever sport you follow, for some people unless they equal or better their best ever result its considered a failure.

Ferrari have been since 88 one of the top three teams just about every year. Yet because equally well financed teams with equally good design resources and brain trusts sometimes beat them then it is a disaster.

If Ferrari were to win every year it would get boring, equally if it were Mclaren, Williams, Red Bull, Reanult, etc. Goin to Australia for the first practice session, qualifying of the year and not knowing ho will be where is exciting, their is a definite atmosphere at that event, that you dont get at others later on in the season,

The problem Ferrari have is that they were very good at aerodynamic grip and not quite so good at mechanical grip, in 2009 the rules changed making mechanical grip more important and reducing aerodynamic grip, since then we have seen Ferrari struggling to get their tyres working as well as say mclaren, another area is the engine, where typically Ferrari would have about 2 engine updates a year, now they are not able to get any improvement in this area, which basically hands a slight advantage (only slight because there is not much difference between the big three engines) to whoever had the best engine at time of freezing which by common consensus is Mercedes.

The next most important change is the reduction in testing, Ferrari used to have three test drivers, their own personal test track outside the factory door, and that is how they checked their updates to see if they were working, there were no problems at race weekends with parts not doing what was expected from windtunnel corrolation as they didn't make it to a race if they were wrong, othere teams didnt have that and developed their own ways of testing to see if the parts were what they expected to be, though mclaren were going to buy their own test track

you have a point there. ferrari's supporters want it to win, and anything less, is a disaster for them, quite naturally, since we grew up seeing ferrari winning, while the non-supporters whose teams/drivers have been beaten black and blue during that period, takes every chance to mock it as a disaster if once in a while they happen to beat them

"'once' in a while" seems like years

sometimes it is not just the losing but the way it happened

Quote:

redline
"'once' in a while" seems like years

Just as well your not a Williams fan then

For most of the time I was growing up, Ferrari were like they are now. Slightly above average only down to their massive budget and payouts from Bernie.

It was only when they bought the cream of the Bennetton team that they had a good few years. When those key 3 people left, it all fell apart again.

True, some of the decisions made by Ferrari since the regime change are way off target. In fact it seems at times they can't hit a bull in the rear-end with a snow shovel.
IMO they can't afford to carry Dom and Massa much longer. It's time to clean house before much more of season is lost.

sessions